Taking Description to Task

Pat here:

In response to reader requests that the Wenches occasionally talk about how we do what we do—I am taking a broad interpretation to include craft as well as how I come up with my stories and characters. Because, truth to tell, I haven’t a clue what crossed wires create insane scenarios in my brain, and craft is a lot easier to explain.

If there are writers reading this, please feel free to jump in, because—as we all know—THERE ARE NO RULES in writing. It’s a creative process requiring we pry the stories from our heads in whatever manner works for us.

That doesn’t stop me from criticizing and pontificating.

One of my favorite rants—topics—is about description. Keep in mind that writing has no rules (Ulysses is a prime example) and every author and every book is different.

That said. . . Pages of description drive me out of a book. I do not want to know the mailbox is adorned in clematis and the front walk lined with miniature roses unless a character drives a car over them. I’m aware that some people love atmosphere and want the misty fog wafting from alleyways and the soft plod of boots on pavement and muffled voices in the distance. And if that muffling fog sets us up for a chilling scream, I’m all there. But if it’s there because the author simply wants us to know she’s been to London in a fog, and nothing happens. . . I’ll skim until I reach dialogue.

Admittedly, I am an impatient reader. While I have enjoyed reading classical literature that goes into entire chapters of description, I did so because they gave me a glimpse of history from an author who lived it. These days, I can Google floor plans of great houses, descriptions of their interiors from original sources, and see colored fashion plates of the wallpaper and draperies. For all that matters, I can watch them on television.

So adding that level of detail to a novel today simply has no purpose, unless one assumes their audience is blind, deaf, and internet deprived. (the lady writing is a gif nodding off to sleep if you click on it)

Do not get me wrong. I do not abhor all description. Finding a level somewhere in between talking heads and developing realistic characters in a distinct setting depends a lot on author voice. Authors who are really good at giving characters distinctive voices can pretty much get away with talking heads, especially if they add humor. Those of us who use dialogue as a means of conveying story need to ground our characters in setting—are they throwing cabbages or climbing marble stairs as they speak? But that doesn’t require that I describe the detailing in the marble unless the heroine trips over it.

What do you think? Do you enjoy description? Can you say why? Do you have a favorite descriptive writer?

And do you mind if we do the occasional writing topic?

Comments

[Binnie Syril Braunstein]

Pat-great post! It's as if you were delving into my mind as you wrote it. As a writer as well as a reader, I realize that setting is necessary. Sometimes, setting is almost a character in the story: I offer as an example Mary Stewart's Avignon in Madam, Will You Talk? But in my opinion, setting/description should be layered in with a delicate brush. It should not go on for pages, and it should certainly be interspersed with characters and dialogue, which are the way the story is moved forward. Again, IMHO, it should not take take up great expanses of the chapter and be shoveled on, reminding me of mashed potatoes. And no, I'm not about to offer any examples.

[Meg]

I have two seconds to type before other duties call, but I'm all in favor of you (plural!) doing the occasional writing piece. As you said, Pat, there are no rules; some writers pull off description exquisitely (We Begin at the End by Chris Whitaker and Jane Harper's phenomenal mysteries come to mind) and others put me to sleep. The floor of the picture you included of the two young women might call out for description only because it caused them to lose their minds!

[Anita Faye Shelburne]

Pages of description? Perhaps not. But I generally love it! I am a multi-sensory reader, so well-written descriptions evoking sight, sound, touch, scent truly enrich a book for me. Yes, of course description must be skillfully done; I've read too many books in which descriptions just feel like filler -- and the same can sometimes be said for dialog.
Thanks; this was an interesting topic!

[Quantum]

I like descriptive writing that shows how a particular environment influences character's thoughts and emotional state. Particularly important in romantic suspense. I think some authors (eg Susanna Kearsley) like to visit a plot location when real places are used. If I enjoy a book I will sometimes try to visit the location eg to experience a romantic setting that inspired the characters. More posts on writing topics would be welcomed by me .... I always enjoy looking under the bonnet to see how things work!

[Patricia Rice]

Mashed potatoes,grinning madly, exactly! Stewart is a wonderful example of how it can be done well. And it's probably best to stick with examples of how it's done well.

[Patricia Rice]

LOL, we're on a roll this AM. Yes, if that carpet has them losing their mind, we should probably describe it in exquisite detail. And you've just suggested two books I'm hurrying off to look for, thank you!

[Patricia Rice]

yes, all the senses should be applied in some manner, when possible. Admittedly, I am bad at describing the scent of let's say, lavender. It's lavender. I say lavender. there ya are. But others are much better at it than I am.

[Patricia Rice]

glad the topic seems to be working for everyone, thank you! And yes, if the story is of the sort like Susanna's, then the setting mixes with the story quite beautifully. But it's tough to pull off!

[Patricia Franzino]

I'm an impatient reader, too, Pat. Too much description signals a self-indulgent writer who likes to hear themselves talk.

I hear it this way through my inner filter of having had to listen to intellectual descriptions from dance instructors. It annoys me, because the body doesn't respond and improve with this kind of teacher.

I have the same visceral response as my eyes glaze over if the author is doing this.

I skim description to see if there is anything relevant, and look for the dialogue. I enjoy characters and their motivation in every scene.

I enjoy writing topics among the blogs with all of the wonderful Word Wenches. It's very interesting to see the process of different writers.

[Mary T]

I guess I'm a bit of an impatient reader too, because if the description goes on for too long I'm ready to move on to see what happens next. And if it happens too often in the book I've been known to drop the book all together.

I do find it interesting to see what a writers process is.
Interesting post.

[Teresa Broderick]

I do like good descriptive writing. I think it adds to a story and gets you into the story when it's properly done. Andrea's Wrexford and Sloane is a wonderful example. I've often picked out passages from the books and written them down, I've liked them so much. She has a perfect way of describing Regency England in all it's squalor of the day.

[Annette N]

I have always thought I was the only one, but evidently not. I do not want long descriptions. I want to know what they are saying and what is happening, not what the scent of the flowers.

On the other hand, there are writers I love who give me the atmosphere for a place and event and I jump on it like a duck on a June bug. Jayne Ann Krentz and all her personas come to mind.

I thank you for this post and sharing your thoughts. I like the fact that you are able to let us know your thoughts. Thank you.

[Lil Marek]

It's not so much a long description that's needed as the right description—the detail that makes this back yard different from all other back yards. Not always easy to do, but very effective when you get it right.

Also, there's the question of whose eyes you are seeing the scene through. The same living room won't look the same to the teenager who can't wait to escape as it will to her father who just wants to collapse after a hard day's work.

I often know exactly what my setting is like. Whether I've communicated it to the reader is a whole other question.

[Karen S. Clift]

When I think of descriptive writing, I think of Elizabeth Lowell's books; I fell in love with her descriptions as much as her characters. In "The Danver's Touch" originally published as a Silhouette Intimate Moment, then revised & repubed as "To the Ends of the Earth" the intro to the female MC had me utterly entranced; before the revision, we saw a dragon formed by rocks, colored by ocean waves & sunset. I would love to that photograph! But even revised, I see what she was after in the pictures that had her entranced. Dang, I have a terrible urge to go reread some Lowell! And I have a choice as I still have the original pbk as well as the newer version...always go for the dragon!

[Patricia Rice]

oh my, I cannot imagine a dance lecture! That calls for action and example.

glad the topic hit the right note!

[Patricia Rice]

thank you! Our processes are all different but sometimes we can strike an interesting note. Glad this one worked.

[Patricia Rice]

oh yes, but Andrea does an excellent job of making that description count! It's wonderful to have settings come to life through the people in them.

[Patricia Rice]

evil chuckle, I am always able to share my thoughts. The problem is whether anyone wants to listen.

But Krentz is another perfect example of the description working for the characters and plot. And the dust bunnies!

[Patricia Rice]

Yes, yes, bang on, thank you for an important point! We can describe the heck out of a common living room if one person is seeing it as comfortable and the other as a tragic wreck. Characters come to life that way.

but that is an extremely difficult description to pull off.

[Patricia Rice]

Dragons require description! We've never seen one. We can't Google one. We might see them in movies, but every one is different. And if he's a character, then yup, it needs to be there. Perfect case of where description is essential.

[Karen S. Clift]

Actually, Pat, the dragon wasn't a character in the book. It was an example/description of what drew her into what turned into a precarious situation because of her fascination with trying to photograph what she was seeing in the rocks, water & sunset. I loved that she could see it & that EL helped me to see it. Besides, it set the two MC's up for their 1st meet... and I'm not too sure I could describe it as a "meet cute" because, man, did they have some differences and we got a good idea as to the problems both were carrying! Can you tell, I love this book? It is one of my fav EL's!

[Kareni]

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Pat. And, yes, I am certainly happy to hear more about how writers write.

I have aphantasia, so I cannot 'see' scenes, however, I still appreciate some description. (Emphasis on some.) I remember being impressed with some descriptions penned by LaVyrle Spencer before she retired in ... 1997 (wow, twenty-five years ago now).

[Anne Gracie]

Binnie Syril, one of my writer friends asserts that Mary Stewart's writing is "boring" to younger generations because she spends quite a bit of time evoking the places she writes about. My friend argues that these days, with so many more people having travelled, and with so much available on the screen and the web, people don't need to have the places described.

I disagreed. I've been so many of the places described in Mary Stewart's books and her descriptions — which I don't think are the sort that Pat is talking about — are lyrical and laid on with a delicate brush, as you say, and they transport me into those places.

[Anne Gracie]

Quantum, I have always wanted to organize a tour of some of the locations used by favourite writers. My first would be a "Mary Stewart" French locations tour, and the next would probably be a Susanna Kearsley one. And with the latter I'd do my best to coax Susanna into joining us. ;)

And as this "more writing topics" was one of your suggestions, we wenches thank you.

[Anne Gracie]

Karen, I'm another Lowell fan, but I've never read that one, so I'm off to find it now. Thank you.

[Andrea Penrose]

I agree wholeheartedly. good writer can make you see even famiiar places in a new way.

[Andrea Penrose]

Seconding the thanks abut suggesting more writing topics. So glad our readers are interested in that. We'll be doing more!

[Andrea Penrose]

Thank you so much Teresa! I think that because of my art background I "see" my scenes very vividly, and I'd like reader to feel the fog, or smoke or smell of the river at low tide. Those things influence how I write a scene, so I like to share them.

[Patricia Rice]

now I need to go look up that book!

[Patricia Rice]

oh LaVyrle was a goddess! I suppose, if I went back and re-read those books, I might get impatient, but at the time, she really sucked in her readers.

[Cindy DeGraaff]

I love some descriptive text, especially of a real place I’ve never been or a fantasy world. If the story is a journey or mystery that is location heavy, I even love a good map to refer to, so I can picture the steps the villain took or the route someone followed and a description of the terrain is very helpful. I agree that pages and pages is too much, but a nice balance of description, narrative and dialogue is a great thing for a story.

[Vicki L]

Definitely more craft/writer topics. I find the whole process of writing (as well as publishing and promoting) fascinating. Posts by individual Wenches or a round robin of input. Any and all will be interesting and welcome.

As for description. I think I was more accepting of it when I was younger but now, not as much if it goes on too long. Definitely don't want paragraphs of it! Multiple sentences are fine. Grin.

I've enjoyed the discussion very much on this topic because each of us has a different view point, as well as tolerance level. (smile)

[Mary Brown]

I wonder if some of the description in recent books is there to allow the writer to reach the necessary word count for the publisher. I am finding that I think some books need more editing so that they are not so wordy. I am not a writer but just a reader who loves to read historical novels.

[Janice J.]

I'm with Cindy on this. I find books that are all dialog, all action and no setting facile and boring. A sense of place and time is necessary to understand the characters and events. I like to come away from a book feeling that I learned something new, especially about places and times I haven't experienced personally.

[Nicola Cornick]

I'm horrified that the younger generation might find Mary Stewart's descriptions boring! They are magical, to my mind. And just because you've seen somewhere for yourself doesn't mean that you won't see it differently through someone else's eyes - surely that's part of the point of reading!

[Nicola Cornick]

I'll sign up for that tour, Anne!

[Nicola Cornick]

And that is exactly why I love reading them - and try to do the same in my books.

[Jeanne Behnke]

Well I’m laying on my reply to Binnie’s original post as well. Mary Stewart immediately came to mind for me as well. In many of her books the description of place is a character. I also feel her books stand the test of time although I’m not sure if younger generations have found her.

[Jeanne Behnke]

I’ll sign up for this too!

[Patricia Rice]

mysteries are an art form of their own, as I am learning! But pages and pages of narrative gives me too much time to forget the details that might be a clue.

[Patricia Rice]

it's definitely a wide topic, and as I said, there are no rules. It's obvious why. Finding what appeals to the most readers is a challenge!

[Patricia Rice]

That may have once been true, but these days, publishers want smaller and smaller books because the costs are so high. Some authors simply make so much money that they have more leverage to do what they like. I have no idea why they choose to spend it on description.

[Patricia Rice]

I agree, although I do wonder what new we can teach in this day and age. It's a challenge for those of us who have been reading for decades.

[Karen S. Clift]

I hope both of you enjoy it but fair warning, he is an 80's alpha so can be a bit "annoying" but I fell in love with him anyway!

[Anne Gracie]

Karen, I tried, but sadly I can't buy it on kindle. I know it's there, but amazon knows I'm in Australia, so the only editions available to Australians are the hard copy. This happens all the time — and drives me bonkers.

[Karen S. Clift]

So sorry, Anne! Someday we're going to get these copyright rules set up so they're not so handicapping! Maybe you can find a pbk copy of one of the versions in a USB. Good Luck!