Interview on The Winter Garden!

"Remember, remember, the fifth of November, gunpowder, treason and plot …”

Christina here and tomorrow is Guy Fawkes’ Day here in the UK so what better time to interview Wench Nicola about her new book THE WINTER GARDEN? It was published last week and is based on the infamous Gunpowder Plot that Mr Fawkes was involved with in 1605. He was part of a group of Catholics who had decided to kill the King by blowing up Parliament, but they were betrayed and ultimately their plot failed. I was lucky enough to read an ARC of this story and it is absolutely fabulous! I seriously couldn’t put it down – if you’d like to read my review you can find it here, but I’d recommend you read it for yourself!

Here’s a short summary:-

1605: Anne Catesby fears for her family. Her son, the charismatic Robert, is secretly plotting to kill the king, placing his family in grave danger. Anne must make a terrible choice: betray her only child or risk her family’s future.

Present Day: When her dreams of becoming a musician are shattered, Lucy Brown takes refuge in her family’s ancestral home in Oxfordshire, once home to Robert Catesby, the gunpowder plotter. There she starts to have strange visions of a woman in Tudor dress, a woman whose story runs parallel to and then converges with her own. Lucy is determined to find out more about this apparition and in doing so uncovers a chain of secrets that have been hidden for centuries…

Christina:  Nicola, we all think we know what the Gunpowder Plot was about and how it ended – what made you want to write about this particular event and their leader Robert Catesby? Why not Guy Fawkes?

Nicola: I first became interested in writing Robert Catesby’s story when I discovered that he had lived at Chastleton House, which isn’t far from me in Oxfordshire. I thought I knew a lot about the Gunpowder Plot but I’d never heard about that phase of Robert’s life – the pre-gunpowder plot years. So, I started to research it and learned more about his wife and children, and the influence his family had on forming his character. I discovered how inter-connected were the families of the gunpowder plotters – they were all related by blood or marriage – and that family angle interested me far more than the actual plot itself!  I chose Robert because of this background and also because he was the driving force behind the plot from the start and Guy Fawkes only came in on it later.

Christina:  You come at it from a totally different angle though and, as always, you have plucked a woman from obscurity and made her tell the tale. What was it about Robert’s mother Anne that made you choose her, and was it difficult to find information about her?

Nicola: I originally thought I would write the story from the point of view of Robert’s wife Catherine, but I identified far more closely with his mother. It’s probably an age thing! As with many of these women from the footnotes of history, there isn’t a lot of information on Anne so I searched for clues to her amongst the background to the plot and various family histories. I got an incredibly strong sense of her character from the descriptions of how she fought to protect her grandson after Robert had died. That impressed me so much; it was something we can relate to now and it must have been so hard for her when she had lost so much, but her determination and strength were inspiring.

Christina:  Robert seems to have been an incredibly charismatic man, very passionate about his beliefs and a born leader of men. Did this come through loud and clear during your research?

Nicola: It did! Robert’s charisma, generosity and leadership qualities come through in the testimonies of people who knew him. He was tall, dark and handsome, charming and persuasive. Friends and relatives commented on how everyone loved him “as much as their own life.” This is the tragedy of Robert Catesby for me – that he was universally loved, that his was so charismatic and that his life could have taken a very different course had matters been different. Yet he chose to channel all his energies into something that was ultimately so destructive and became a fanatic. (Here's a picture of Kit Harington as Robert Catesby in the TV series Gunpowder to give an idea!)

Christina:  I love the slant you have put on the story with a sub-plot involving Anne and Robert’s godfather Sir Thomas Tresham, but I won’t reveal any spoilers. I just wondered if that was pure imagination on your part or if there was any basis for your theory?

Nicola: I’m afraid that was pure imagination on my part! The families were very closely bound together and there are some striking similarities in the characters of Thomas Tresham and Robert Catesby. That’s all I’m going to say!

Christina:  You mention that the Tresham family had a genetic trait passed down the generations whereby they had one blue and one green eye – is that true or did you make that up?

Nicola: That was also my imagination at work. I’ve read about various genetic anomalies like that and they fascinate me. In my own family there is a gene for red hair that comes out every second generation. The idea fitted well with the plot of the story…

Christina:  Why do you think Guy Fawkes (pictured) is the one remembered on 5^th November rather than Robert Catesby? It should really be called Robert Catesby Day!

Nicola: That’s a question that has always interested me. It should be called Robert Catesby Day, shouldn’t it (although that doesn’t have the same ring to it!) I think there are a few reasons why Guy Fawkes has come out on top of the bonfire! Firstly, he was the one who was found in the cellars with the gunpowder so he is the person associated most closely with the plan to blow up the Houses of Parliament. Then we have his confession and dramatic execution. Robert Catesby was already dead by this time, shot in a stand-off with the Sheriff of Worcester’s men. So he fades out of the story and all the attention is on Guy Fawkes.

Christina:  I’m sure that you, like me, have been to the British Library and seen the original document signed by Guy Fawkes (in Latin as Guido Fawkes) where he confesses his crimes after torture. Every time I look at it I shiver because you can see from the shaky handwriting how much pain he has endured. Would you ever include such scenes in one of your books? (I was very grateful you didn’t – hope that’s not a spoiler!)

Nicola: I agree – the confession is a horrible piece of evidence of the torture he had suffered. I would never include scenes of torture and violence in my books because I don’t like either reading or writing them and I believe our imaginations can supply those details without making them graphic.

Christina:  As a reader, I love that characters from your previous books pop up in other stories – in this case it’s Johnny Robsart, younger brother of Arthur who marries Lizzie Kingdom in THE FORGOTTEN SISTER. Is this something other readers tell you they like as well? (And I am now hoping that Johnny will feature as the hero of a future book – he’s lovely!)

Nicola: Ah, thank you! Yes, I love Johnny too! It started in my previous book, The Last Daughter, when to my surprise I found Lizzie making a guest appearance. Like you I enjoy re-acquainting myself with characters from previous books as a reader, so I was glad when this happened and just went with it. Johnny immediately felt like the right person to be involved in the archaeology dig at Knightstone Manor. Readers have commented how nice it is to see Lizzie, Arthur and Johnny again, and now he’s getting older, Johnny would make a great hero…

Christina:  I believe that Knightstone Manor is fictional – where did Robert and Catherine Catesby really live? And did you base this manor house and the beautiful winter garden on a real one?

Nicola: The book was originally intended to be set at Chastleton House, where Robert and Catherine lived, but the pandemic put paid to me going there to research it so I re-located the story to a fictitious village called Knightstone, which is based on the village of Ashbury near to where I live. Knightstone Manor is actually modelled on a real house in Ashbury, as is the house where Lucy stays. The winter garden idea was inspired by the pleasure grounds at Lyveden New Bield which Thomas Tresham created. The National Trust owns Lyveden now and you can go and see the recreated gardens there. They are enchanting – there are terraces and spiral mounds, a canal and a maze. It’s like stepping straight back into history!

Christina:  Chastleton, however, was real and belonged to Robert until he had to sell it to pay a debt – I take it you visited and spent a lot of time there?

Nicola: Yes, I had been to Chastleton before the pandemic and now that it is open again, I’ve revisited. The stunning house that is there now was built by Walter Jones, who bought the estate from Robert Catesby in the early 1600s. There is evidence to suggest that the earlier manor, Robert and Catherine’s house, is beneath the current one.

Christina:  I was captivated by the dual time line and enjoyed the story in the present just as much as the one in the past. Your modern-day hero, Finn, is a landscape archaeologist, which sounds fascinating – how did you research his job?

Nicola:  Thank you! It’s difficult with dual time sometimes to make both threads of the story as interesting but I did love writing the modern timeline as well as the historical one. I’m lucky enough to know several people who are gardeners, landscape archaeologists, garden historians or a combination of all three, so I shamelessly drew on their experience for Finn’s work. I must admit it something I’d love to do myself!

Christina:  Can you share a short excerpt from THE WINTER GARDEN please?

Nicola: Here it is!

Chapter 1. Lucy, The Present

"The house looked exactly as she remembered it.
Immediately ahead of her was a low wall of chalk and sarsen stone, overgrown with a tangle of white and gold honeysuckle, pink wild rose and white star jasmine. Tall pink hollyhocks bent confidingly close towards one another, almost blocking the little wooden gate. Beyond that, a path of irregular flagstones cut across a wide lawn – almost a meadow because the grass was so long and dotted with wildflowers – up to the pale-green-painted door, which nestled beneath a flat porch. The windows were irregular too, two of them set on each side of the entrance, their Georgian casements reflecting a gleam of lamplight within.
Gunpowder Cottage. The pale cream of the chalk stone walls, burnished honey gold in the late, low sun, gave the house a timeless, ethereal appearance, as though it had been settled in the landscape for ever. Lucy could almost hear the centuries whispering to her.
It was a beautiful place, but she’d rather be almost anywhere else in the world right now.
‘It’s the perfect place for you to have a break,’ her sister Cleo had said warmly, when she had rung to tell Lucy that she had arranged it all. ‘I’ve spoken to Aunt Verity and cleared it with the lettings agency. They’re not taking bookings at the moment because there’s some major work being done in the gardens. Aunt Verity did mention she might be heading back from Australia in a few weeks, but for now the place is all yours.’
Lucy hadn’t replied because there were tears crowding her throat, tears of combined guilt, gratitude and frustration. When she failed to speak, Cleo had continued breezily: ‘You don’t need to worry about a thing, Luce. All you have to do is rest.’
‘Right,’ Lucy had said. Then, thinking this sounded ungrateful, ‘Thank you, Cleo. You’re a star.’
‘I know you’re not used to taking it easy,’ Cleo said, a hint of reproach in her voice, ‘but this time you really are going to have to stop, Lucy.’
‘Yeah,’ Lucy said. Admitting the truth was hard, even to Cleo, especially to Cleo, perhaps, since normally Lucy was the organiser and her little sister was swept along in her wake. She could hear the subtext in Cleo’s words, the echoes of friends and family:
‘Poor Lucy, she’s such a workaholic, so driven… No life outside of her music… What will she do now?’
It was a good question. Lucy didn’t know the answer. Not yet. She hadn’t even really accepted the reality of it yet, how a month of pneumonia and the complications that had followed it had ended her musical career so brutally. Her entire life plan had been derailed by a jumped-up flu virus.
‘New talent Lucy Brown lights up the Barbican concert hall,’ one review had said, a week after she had been hospitalised. ‘The new Benedetti!’ another raved. ‘Full of promise. We can’t wait to hear more from the London Gala Orchestra’s new star…’
But there would be no more violin solos and the critics would forget her soon enough because there was always someone else coming up through the ranks. Meanwhile she had to get over it and get on with her life."

Christina:  And will you be giving away a copy of THE WINTER GARDEN?

Nicola: I’m very happy to give away a copy of the book, either in print or e-book format, to one commenter between now and midnight Sunday 6^th. Thank you so much for the interview, Christina, and such interesting questions! It’s been a pleasure chatting!

I have fond memories of Bonfire Night parties as a child where we waved sparklers and ate toffee apples and baked potatoes! If you were holding a bonfire party, what would you eat and drink?

Comments

[Kareni]

Thank you, Nicola and Christina, good a wonderful interview. And best wishes, Nicola, for the success of THE WINTER GARDEN!

I think the last bonfire party I attended was during college, and that was in the US not the UK. Sadly, toffee apples and baked potatoes did not feature. Hot chocolate sounds like a fine bonfire beverage to me.

[Nicola Cornick]

Hi Kareni! Thank you - I'm so glad you enjoyed the interview. Hot chocolate sounds good to me too! Especially with whipped cream and marshmallows toasted on the fire.

[Patricia Franzino]

Thanks for doing such a great interview from one wonderful writer to another!

If I were able to attend a bonfire party, I would love hot apple pie with ice cream washed down with apple cider.

Nicola, I always enjoy reading your latest book. The present and past stories are so intriguing. I'm so looking forward to it.

[Pat Dupuy]

I love fiction with history added in. I saw the Kit Harington series about the gunpowder plot. One reason he made it is because Robert Catesby is one of his ancestors. As for what to have at a bonfire I'd opt for roasting hot dogs.

[Annette N]

I think one of the things that most of us here in the States have a hard time getting, is the fact you have such a long history. I am a fan of fiction which includes a "possible" history and the imagined actions of people.
When you discuss Robert Catesby, it is hard to imagine what led him to his final destination. But, then, human beings have this tendency to live lives which are unexpectedly messy. It is easy to look back and think this man could have been much different. But, who knows what he considered to be the best direction for his life?

When I think of Elizabeth I and Elizabeth II, I am amazed that both these women became queen in spite of what was expected to be their lives when they were born. Both of them became so much more than was expected of them. Both of them had different personal powers and they learned how to use their powers. When I think of them, I immediately think that people become their destiny.

Evidently, Guy Fawkes was destined to be the face of the disaster and Robert Catesby was destined to the leader who stayed in the background. And Robert's mother was destined to have fear for her son's future.

[Jane Irish Nelson]

Nicola, I can't wait to read this book. But I have a rather off-the-wall question. Is Robert Catesby related to (maybe descended from) William Catesby, who was one of Richard III's councillors?

[Nicola Cornick]

Thanks so much, Patricia! I do hope you enjoy the book. Apple cider goes very nicely with a bonfire celebration, I think!

[Nicola Cornick]

It was an interesting series wasn't it, Pat. Kit Harington was a good fit for playing Catesby - must be in the genes!

[Nicola Cornick]

Thank you, Annette, such an interesting and thoughtful response to the whole idea of human lives going in unusual directions. That hasn't changed at all throughout history, nor has the fact that people's families will worry about them!

[Nicola Cornick]

Yes, he was a direct descendant of William Catesby. That was the first time the family fell from grace; they recovered to do quite well under the Tudors but when Robert's father William became a recusant the family fortunes took a fall again and of course never recovered after Robert.

[Teresa Broderick]

Lovely interview. I've read The Winter Garden and I LOVED it!! I really felt for Robert's mother. She had so much to endure and she was a very determined woman. It was also nice to read about the people in the plot from a different perspective. Good luck with it Nicola but I don't think you'll need it!!

[Nicola Cornick]

Thanks so much, Teresa - I am so happy you enjoyed it! I do like looking at familiar historical events from a different perspective.

[Jane Irish Nelson]

Thanks, Nicola. Genealogy is one of my hobbies, so I can't help but wonder when I notice historical characters with the same names.

[Nicola Cornick]

I love tracing all these historical connections too!