Names

Hi, Jo here, tangled up in the calendar turnover! I turned it to November today, late of course, and there was my reminder to put up a Wench post. Many apologies.

So I'm doing a quickie.

Last week I realized that the hero of my MIP (Masterpiece, Mess, or Monster in progress) doesn't have a first name. This happens to me quite frequently with my titled heroes as lords often hardly used their baptismal name at all, even though as writers and readers of historical romance we like them to. In reality they used their title for most purposes.

Of course, most of them aren't born into their title. Let's take as example plain William Potts, who grows up as Billy until the age of fourteen, when his father becomes a viscount as the heir to an earl. Billy is suddenly the Honorable William Potts, but it probably doesn't make a great deal of difference to him as he's at school, where the boys are all called by their surnames. This pattern continues, and gentlemen tended -- still sometimes tend -- to address one another by surname.

(The picture is of the five ranks of peers in their robes.)

Then Billy's father becomes the earl and he becomes Viscount Creel, and  Creel he remains for twenty years until at age fifty he become Earl of Dullock, known to most as Dullock. Not surprising really if some of them embraced a nickname in youth that their intimates used all their lives.

(As well as the vast oversupply of dukes in Prinnyworld  - as I once tagged the world of Regency-set romance -  there are a shocking number of titled men under thirty. Shocking, because we have to accept the sad fact that they'll all have to die before sixty to provide a new generation of young, sexy, adventurous peers!)

However, I probably should discover what the Earl of Kynaston's Christian name is. (I never did discover that of the Duke of Ithorne, hero of The Duke's Secret. Occasionally a particularly attentive reader writes to ask me and I have to tell her that I don't know. Clearly that was the secret! It must be a particularly dismaying one. Nero? Ethelbert?

Any suggestions as to a name that a romance hero would want to bury so deep that the author can never discover it?

Viscount Dauntry, the hero of my April book, would have liked to keep his secret, but the story includes the wedding, so they had to come out.

Back to Kynaston. I asked for suggestions on Facebook and I have an abundance of excellent ones, but I thought I'd ask here, too.

A few points, which are also general guides to naming an English aristocratic gentleman.

1. They rarely used Old Testament names such as Aaron, Samuel, or Gideon. These were used in the lower classes, but not in the aristocracy, perhaps because some were associated with the Puritans of the Commonwealth, who beheaded Charles I.

2. They rarely used Irish names. The Irish were not admired, so no Brendan, Patrick, or Sean.

3. Unless they had Scottish connections, they tended not to use Scottish names such as Ian, Gavin and Alistair. James was fine, as he'd become an English king.

4. They did use classical names to show off their education. Hector, Leander, Scipio.

5. They often played safe with New Testament names and those of monarchs -- John, William, Henry, and lots and lots of Georges (which is why I wrote the trilogy I tagged "three guys called George") but we'll ignore that.

Let me have your suggestions for Lord Kynaston's baptismal name. There'll be a book prize for one randomly picked suggestion.

Jo

Comments

[Sonya Heaney]

Names are such a cultural and generational thing. For example, “Jill” seems an innocent, normal name, and then you go to Korea and it’s VERY rude. “Fanny” was just fine, but now it means women’s lady parts (or the more innocent “arse/ass” in American). “Semen” is a popular Russian surname.

Names that are appropriate for the time period get laughed at by people in different eras or countries.

“Shocking, because we have to accept the sad fact that they'll all have to die before sixty to provide a new generation of young, sexy, adventurous peers!”

THIS! I enjoy duke books, but don’t understand the publishing industry’s desperation for them. There was a blog post on All About Romance today where everyone was upset about a “how to be a gentleman” post, because it was snobby. And it astonished me. Dukes ARE snobs!

[Melinda Hammond]

Great post, Jo, thank you! We like to give our heroes heroic names, don't we? I fancy something like Lysander for Kynaston's baptismal name!

[Jenny Haddon]

Well, I've always had a weakness for Hercules, after Henry Fielding's creation of Captain Hercules Vinegar. But that wouldn't be a good enough reason for a nobleman to bestow the name upon his son.

Richard was a good old fashioned Cavalier name but seems to have been untainted by association with Stuart rebellions. And where did Oliver (as in Goldsmith, Irish gentry rather than aristo) come from?

[Quantum]

I think that Algernon is a rarely used name in romantic fiction. But it has an excellent pedigree in the aristocracy:

From Wikipeda Algernon is a given male name which derives from the Norman-French soubriquet Aux Gernons, meaning "with moustaches". It is first heard of in reference to William de Percy, 1st Baron Percy, a Knight from Percy-en-Auge, who accompanied William the Conqueror to England in 1066, and ancestor of the Dukes, and Earls of Northumberland, many of whom bore the name. It was also used as a nickname for Eustace II, Count of Boulogne.

[BabyCisco2]

Randall/Randolph for the embarrassing-to-Brits nickname Randy.

You could look for a name that started out perfectly innocuous when your hero was born but later became inextricably tied to someone unpleasant - as a baby born in the 1920s named Adolph would have experienced, for example. Perhaps Lord Kynaston's mother was a Tuscan relation of Napoleon?

[Anne Hoile]

Maybe Montague? Aloysius? Perhaps Harriett from a family last name, with a nickname of Harry? Abelard and you know how that ended........

[Jobev]

LOL, Sonya! I'm not sure whether all dukes are snobby, but it does amaze me that many readers want ordinary-guy dukes. I don't think they want ordinary-guy billionaires.

Yes, names can be tricky in other cultures.

[Jobev]

I don't think Lysander has come up yet, Melinda. Thanks.

[Jobev]

Good question on Oliver. Of course Oliver Cromwell made it an unlikely name for an aristocrat, but I'm struggling to think of an Oliver before Cromwell.

[Jobev]

Great history of a name there, Quantum.

I'm not keen on Algernon because it so easily goes to Algie, which is too close to algae!

[Jobev]

Napoleon would certainly be an interesting one!

As I mention in The Viscount Needs a Wife, after the death of Princess Charlotte in 1817 it became known that a Bonaparte was in line for the throne. Much fluttering in the hen house!

[Jobev]

Montague is plausible, though I can't remember coming across it as a first name in the Regency. Aloysius is Spanish, is it not? And very Catholic. That certainly wouldn't do in their eyes!

[Mary T]

I say just give him a common name (Joseph, John, etc.) since it will hardly be used anyway.

I love romance, especially in an historical settings, but I too have often wondered why all the heroes have to have a title. It seems to me that a good story would still be just as good if the hero were a plain mister. I'm probably in the minority in that opinion.

I do love Regencies, but I wish more stories were set in the Edwardian era. That is probably because I love the hair and fashion styles from that time. Shallow, I know. Least favorite is Victorian. What were they thinking with those hooped skirts?

Sorry....got a little off topic there (smile).

[Nicola Cornick]

Great topic, Jo, and some wonderful comments too. I'm fascinated to see the names that were in general usage during different periods. We don't have much variety in our family in that era, mostly William, George and James on the male side and a few more unusual ones on the female. My husband's family is much more interesting and includes "Drake" "Love" "Seaborn" and most memorably "Mouseaton" although that could be a reference to the record not the child!

Was Oliver originally a Norman French name "Olivier"? I can imagine it would go right out of favour in the 17th century!

[Sandra Johnson]

I like Scipio. Then there is the name of one of my ancestors, Launcelot! Lance for short?

[Carol Hice]

Jo - love your books! How about having a hero named Maximilian Alexander Xavier ... so named by his father in honor of some previous relatives; that way, no matter whether he goes by the shortening of his first name, or by the first letters of his given names, his nickname is always "Max".

[GrowlyCub]

I like unusual/seldomly used names but overall much prefer the nicknames derived from the titles/last names, i.e. Hart for the Marquess of Hartington etc.

I like Kenelm or Evelyn. :)

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Esmé

[Vicki W.]

The first name combination I had come up with before I got on here was Alexander Thomas. Or how about Robert Christopher. Those both sound like suitably aristocratic names.

As for nicknames, when boys went to school, didn't they frequently come up with nicknames that had nothing to do with titles and more to do with some action or characteristic of the person?

I agree...too many dukes these days! If you think about GH's books, there were many hero's that were plain mister's. After all, in reality, there were many more mister's than titles!

As for calling someone by their last name primarily, I think they do that still in the military. I know a friend of mine who has been in the National Guard for 30 plus years, if you call him by his first name (even repeatedly) he doesn't always respond. If you call him by his last name he whips around and looks for who is calling him.

[Joan]

Anthony Malcolm Kynaston, Lord etc.

[Mary Turner Drake]

I don't think you can use any of the conventional naming strategies AND have a need for secrecy. Perhaps Shirley which was a male/female name and could have been considered embarrassing? Or a French name which would have been very inappropriate for the time - so the previous suggestion of Esme would do well on both counts. Or an embarrassing Greek god - imagine being christened Jove by a drunken parent too embarrassed and arrogant to go back on his word? No boy or man would ever let anyone know about that!

[camilla]

My ancestors were French and German....but we have
Alexander
Zenon
Leonidas
George
from that era.....

[[email protected]]

Okay - I like these two; Archibald or Montague

[Lucy]

You might want to have a look at the good old Saxon names; there were some doozies. And it's possible, with a family proud of its ancient Saxon ancestry...

Eadbald, Earpwald, Hengist, Hereric, Osfrid, Aldhelm....

https://s-gabriel.org/names/aelfwyn/bede.html

[Mary Jane]

I have always liked Ranulph (I think pronounced Rafe as in Fiennes) - very Old English, and goes well with Kynaston.

[Claire]

Doing some research early in the Georgian era, I came across the follow real names that are quite awesome:

Jupiter Hammon (poet)
Fortunatus Wright (privateer)
Increase Moseley (politician)

All three by Regency era might be the type of name that would be slightly embarrassing.

[cathleen s]

I like Lysander, but as a middle name...Edmond Lysander (or Edmund in England).

[cathleen s]

I think there are too many duke books. I am partial to viscounts myself or marquesses.

[cathleen s]

I really like evelyn, too! it sounds elegant.

[Jobev]

No problem with off topic, Mary. I'm with you on the Victorian crinolines, but I'm not very keen on Edwardian. I'm not sure why. Too modern, and WWI is always looming.

[Jobev]

Those are great names, Nicola! We can use very unlikely ones if they're family surnames. It's the more common ones that aren't upper class that are problematical.

[Jobev]

When was the Launcelot, Sandra? It carries such a weight of mythology, doesn't it?

[Jobev]

Very clever, Carol! Not sure about Xavier, though. I think that would come from Francis Xavier? What about Xerxes? Hmm, now there's a name.

[Jobev]

Yes, Hart was a good real one because it's a nice name anyway. Some abbreviations could be less so.

Would a lot of people feel Evelyn was a woman's name? It was used for men, of course. Kenelm. I'll have to look that one up. Irish?

[Jobev]

Yes, Vicki, nicknames could have nothing to do with names or titles.

[Jobev]

Interesting ones, Joan. I don't see many Anthonys in Regency records, though it is a good classical name, from the Roman Anthony. Malcolm is very Scottish.

[Cathy]

Has anyone suggested Arthur?

[Kathy K]

I was going to suggest Anglo-Saxon names but was beaten to the punch. Edward is a good one (plus my DH has that name, so I'm partial to it). But to add complication, it seems that most Brits have at least 3 names plus the surname, at least in the upper classes. I really like Simon and Justin as well.Probably no one would go for Athenasius. What about Ciprian? Alban? Here's a great one for Brits: Benedict. It doesn't play well in America because of Benedict Arnold, but it's a strong name.

[Mary Munarin]

The author Evelyn Waugh was once married to a female Evelyn. Their friends called them He-Evelyn and She-Evelyn. Could be shortened to Heave and Sheave, I suppose ... ;-)

[Mary Munarin]

Wasn't there something about the first name having to be that of a saint? (Hence, "Christian name.") There were plenty of (Anglican) saints to choose from. My vote is for Birinus--can't you just hear the boys' taunt: "Birinus us some figgy pudding."

[Nancy]

Stephen and Lysander have been used as has David and, of course, George. I like John and Jason ( of Golden Fleece). I really like Jonathan and Robert. Some of that day still had Anglo Saxon names or were they Danish? but as I can't pronounce or spell them I avoid them.
I think an author usually has to avoid using the same name ( except for 3 men named George where none are usually called George) because readers often think of the characters in other books as well. That eliminates all the names in the Rogues books.

[Chris bails]

I think Spencer, Rafe, and Jonathan are great guy names. I also love Christopher Thomas. Love William James. I love choosing names.

[Jo Beverley]

I thought I replied to this, Mary, but it seems to have disappeared. There's no particular need of secrecy in this book, but I do want a name that feels right -- ie what his parents might have used.

[Jobev]

Leonidas is interesting!

[Jobev]

I used Anglo-Saxon names for my Mallorens, Lucy. Cynric, Elfled, Brand, Hilda, Arcenbryght, and Beowulf, who was of course the Marquess of Rothgar. I was a bit stuck as to what his family would call him, as I didn't fancy Wulf, but they obliged by revealing that he's Bey to his nearest and dearest. An eastern potentate sort of suits.*G*

I must say, though, that Earpwald is tempting for a character I don't like!

[Jobev]

Ranulf is good. I try to avoid heroes called Rafe, however, as there have been too many IMO

[Jobev]

Jupiter is a great name, isn't it. I assume Increase was an early Georgian, left over from the Commonwealth. The Puritans really loved those sorts of names and I gather they were often take as the person grew, rather than given at baptism.

[Jobev]

It is a good name, Cathy, and I haven't used it yet except for a child in the upcoming The Viscount Needs a Wife.

[Jobev]

Edward has dignity, yes. Ciprian would fall foul of "Cyprian" which was a term for a lady of the demi-monde. Alban's a good Old English name, and I do like Benedict. Are Americans never given the name Benedict?

[Jobev]

I don't think it could have been a law, Mary, as many didn't. It might have applied to Catholics, but few British aristocracy were Catholic.

Birinus. Hmmm. There certainly are a lot of old saints with odd names.

[Jobev]

You're right, Nancy. It's best not to use a name for more than one hero, which is why I'm struggling a bit after 40 books and a bunch of novellas!

[Jobev]

Thanks for the suggestions, Chris.

[Bliss Bennet]

Jo:

I've been going through my copy of Debrett's Peerage (from 1831), compiling a list of potential hero names for my future books. Some unusual ones I've come across:

Alberic
Albermarle
Amias
Armine
Atherton

And those are just the a's!

[Sue McCormick]

I find many interesting names as I work with my ancestors as I do Genealogy. The line I know the most about is of German descent (which would work well with the Hanoverian Kings), but they're fairly commonplace — Johann Jacob (John Jacob), Heinrich Nicklaus (Henry Nicholas) and so on. But you might try Balthasar (from Heinrich Balthasar) who was 17th century and too new to the American colonies to anglicize his name.

I had thought of Shirley before someone else mentioned it. I have males named Shirley among those German descended ancestors.

A HORRIBLE thought (to be used for an oily villain?): Shirley Cedric Evelyn!

[Annette Naish]

I am guessing things like Chuck and Spike are out.

What about Alfred, Albert or Cyril?

[Kathy K]

Well, no, not to my knowledge. If someone is called Ben it's usually short for Benjamin.

[GrowlyCub]

English courtier, Sir Kenelm Digby, whose wife (Venetia Stanley) was painted after death by Van Dyke because Kenelm loved her so.

[Lucy]

I don't think I ever have heard of or met a fellow American answering to Benedict--though there's probably one somewhere, statistically speaking, and will probably be more thanks to the trans-Atlantic popularity of Benedict Cumberbatch. Otherwise, even if it weren't for the infamous Arnold, the name comes across as being somewhat religious and old-fashioned.

[Sue McCormick]

Additional thought: Has anyone suggested Alan?

[LilMissMolly]

How about Henry?

[Catherine]

My brain is feeling a bit Rosemary Sutcliffe right now, with just a hint of Shakespeare, so...

Theseus
Leander
Lysander
Alexander (hmm, these keep rhyming)
Edmund
Richard
Marcus
Flavius
Flavian
Hadrian
Julian
Coriolanus (I dare you. Though it might come into the category of a name that one would never reveal...)

And I think I'm done....

[Jobev]

That's a great place to look, Bliss, and it shows there are plenty of options.

[Jobev]

I think Shirley is just too tricky, Sue. At the time it wouldn't have been odd, but the modern reader would think it funny. Balthazar would certainly be a load to carry!

[Jobev]

I am guessing things like Chuck and Spike are out.

Indeed!

What about Alfred, Albert or Cyril?

I suspect Albert only became common after Victoria married Albert, but the other two are old English names.

[Jobev]

An interesting collection, Catherine. I rather like Hadrian as a name.

[Helen]

I have a copy of the Harrow School Register which is a list of alums from this public school ( kind of like Eton). I went through the early 1800's and the king names ( Henry, George, John, Charles, William) are the vast majority. I think it is fine to stick with a common name for your hero. Most of the exotic first names are names of places, or last names that have turned into first names, for example Bellerden, Sackville, Craswell, Blayncy, Willoughby, Wadham and Lee. My father had a middle name of Pelham and was always called Pel as a child. So if you want a more unusual name, maybe pull out a map and pick out a name that appeals.

[Jobev]

Gosh, Helen, I'm envious -- and tempted to ask if the Rogues are in there. They all went to Harrow. :)

Yes, most upper class Regency men had simple names, but it's not really possible to repeat names in fiction. It becomes too confusing. So as I said, as I write my 41st book I have to come up with something new.

I do use maps and placenames, but more for titles than first names. I wonder if some of the Harrow names that come from places come more directly from family names that derive from places, or titles, ditto.

[Lucy]

The list of members at White's doesn't include very many first names, and some are from later in the century, but I'm finding Paul, Nicolas, Anthony, Everard, Murray, Seymour, Stormont ... even an Otho as a member in 1847.

Here's the link:
https://archive.org/stream/historyofwhits02bouruoft#page/526/mode/2up

Is there a Paul in your previous forty?

[Tonya]

I don't think it's been mentioned and I know Welsh, but what about Meredith? I'm fairly sure nobody wants to go through a boy's school with a moniker that could be shortened to Merry. Though we do have a few with the name of Comfort in our family tree. :)