Bobbing for Apples -- Pomona's Best

One Halloween festivity that may lie in some folks’ near future is ‘Bobbing for Apples’.  

The best part of this particular Halloween activity is it’s done at parties for small children and folks don’t show up at my door carrying a tub and a bucket of water and expecting me to supply the apples. That is to say, bobbing is something I can watch from a respectful distance but I don’t have to do anything. “Good,” says I.

The apple/Halloween connection dates to the Roman conquest of England. That’s the four centuries after 43 CE for anyone who doesn’t have the date right on the tip of their tongue.

The Romans pursued a pragmatic policy of folding local religious celebrations into the Roman ones, the better to civilize all these barbarians they now had to deal with. With the admirable intention of Romanizing a holiday, they turned their sights on the Celtic festival of Samhain which fell at the autumn equinox.

Samhain was a fine, robust old festival held when the days were about to get shorter and shorter and colder and colder and just generally life would be somewhat more miserable. This was the turn of the Celtic calendar, the beginning of the new year, a time when it was felt the dead were particularly liable to return to haunt the living. Dealing with this annual visitation called for lighting huge sacred bonfires and making sacrifice of items from the harvest and the odd animal they thought the gods might fancy. Folks dressed in costumes of animal heads and skins, did what they could to chase away any bad luck that came through the gates of the netherworld along with the spirits, and did a little foretelling of the future.

Pomona, with apple

The Romans looked at Samhain and were immediately reminded of the Festival of Pomona, the Roman goddess of fruit and trees. The connection seems tenuous. We don’t know much about Pomona’s festival, but I rather doubt it involved animal skins and bonfires. Be that as it may, Pomona was particularly associated with apples. It’s not a great stretch to imagine some of the prognostication that was already part of Samhain began to involve apples. They were lying about available at this time of the year, after all.

In any case, that's an argument the divinational virtues of apples may date from as long ago as the Romans. Certainly, we have a variety of apple fortune telling going on in the last few centuries. Who knows how old it is?

One of my favorites superstitions is apple oriented. Young girls, peeling apples, would try to take the skin off in one long, unbroken strip. They’d toss that strip over their shoulder and use hope and imagination to make out a shape or a letter in the way it fell. That would indicate the name of their future husband.

I pare this pippin round and round again,
My shepherd's name to flourish on the plain.
I fling th' unbroken paring o'ver my head,
Upon the grass a perfect L. is read. 

               John Gay, 1714

 

When I was a kid I’d always try to get the apple peel off in one go. It’s some kinda basic human instinct.

Bobbing for apples -- in the north of England called ‘Ducking’ or ‘Dukking’ for apples is centuries old. It comes in both a water format and an ‘apple suspended on a string’ format. That grab-an-apple-in-your-teeth game has been around at least 600 years. The apples-in-cold-wet-water is at least three hundred. Both practices may be much older.

One old divination carried out when bobbing for apples in a basin of water is the young ladies carved a letter on a particular apple. When the young man bobbed for apples she’d see who got ‘hers’.

I imagine the men peeked but that’s just me being cynical.

I feel like apple bobbing is less popular in 2015 than it was even fifty years ago. This might be the general dwindling of folk customs. It might be a greater emphasis on costumes and candy over other traditional activities. And it might be that apples are less of a special treat now than they were a hundred years ago. Even a very fine, sweet eating apple may seem a feeble reward for dunking yer head.

I’m sad when old customs die. Not, you understand, that I’d want to do this myself.

Do you have family ‘harvest time’ traditions? Decorating the house for Halloween? Going out to pick apples? Oktoberfest? Tell me what moves you at this season of mists and mellow fruitfulness.

 

One commenter will win a copy of one of my books — your choice — including Last Chance Christmas Ball. (US residents only. Sorry.)  

 

 

 

Comments

[Sonya Heaney]

I saw apple bobbing once – at a beach resort in Fiji in 1993! As for Halloween, I’ve only ever celebrated it while working at an American school in Korea.

No Halloween here in Australia! Plus, it’s spring!

We have made little attempts to do a few little Halloween things here and there every year (I’d really love for our country to embrace the holiday), but we’re going out to dinner this year, so we won’t even be doing that.

I don’t understand this Australian attitude of “Why would we celebrate something that isn’t from our culture?” when we waste so much money on really manufactured occasions like Mother’s and Father’s Days and on the 14th of February…

[Mary M.]

I suspect the near demise of apple bobbing is mostly due to apples getting bigger and maybe harder. Do you ever see an apple today that you could get your teeth into without your hands pressing it against your mouth? Those "olde" apples must have been closer to the size of crabapples, I'd think. Then the odds of success would make the game worthwhile!

Here's a seasonal game a wordsmith might play, regardless of location north or south: Using the words 'Halloween costume party,' find all the smaller words that can be formed from them. I remember being class champion at this around the fourth grade with 87.

I think the teacher used this desk game to calm us down, but being a wordy even then, I found the challenge more exciting than bobbing for apples ever could be.

[Vicki W.]

I agree with Mary...most apples these days are way to big for anyone to grab easily. Unless you have are able to open your mouth VERY widely!

Hmmm....I have no memory of apple bobbing - in water or on a string at any party in the last 50 years. I know it won't be Halloween in July but maybe I should try it during Cousin's week this next year. Just before/or after we go swimming. That way we'll all be dressed appropriately. Grin.

As for word games, we played those every day in the 5th grade. The bus riders would leave to catch the bus. So our teacher would give us words to unscramble, make more words out of, etc. If you got it done before the bell rang, you were allowed to leave early.

You bet I applied myself to it! I do remember I got rather good at it and had fun. And got to leave a whole 60 or 90 seconds early to ride my bike home. My classroom was in a separate building with an outside door just a few steps away. The things we used to do 45 years ago!

Like play across the street in the woods during recess (not even on school property.) Definitely not in sight of a single teacher.

[Lillian Marek]

The secret to getting an apple you're bobbing for is to be willing to get your face wet. Or your whole head if the tub is deep enough. Push down so the apple is against the bottom and you can get your teeth into it. This is probably why only children do this—adults are too vain. ;-)
I'm always trying to get the apple peel off in one strip. After all, when you're peeling half a bushel of apples to make the strudel, you need something to add a bit of interest to the task. It's sort of like the way I used to time myself when ironing sheets (back in the days when I actually ironed) to see if I could break my previous record.

[Nancy]

I was well grown before I saw anyone bobbing for apples though I had read about the custom. When I was something like 5 or 6 I painted cats and pumpkins on the windows of the shop where Daddy sold skates and fixed bicycles as his second job. He was an electrician. The house and shop were rented. How my sister who was 8 and I ever got hold of that paint I don't know. I do know they couldn't wash or scrape off the paint so painted the windows black. We also sold the skates for $.50. They were worth about ten times that. Daddy was not pleased. I don't think we celebrated Halloween in any way for over 6 years.

[Joanne Bourne]

I had not really thought about how this bobbing was done with historical apples. But I suspect you are right. A good many of them would be smaller than the modern sort.

And the modern apples in the supermarket are the largest examples of their variety. The small ones go to applesauce, vinegar, and cider.

I don't know if the historical apples were softer though. My impression is the old, pre-C18, pre-Victorian apples were more what we'd call cooking apples today. Harder, less sweet, thick skinned. In a world without refrigerated storage, apples were one of the few fresh fruits available in the dead of winter. Would 'sweet' apples do well in storage?

Here's a view of some heirloom apples ... https://www.pinterest.com/pin/267753140320269892/

[Joanne Bourne]

I'm trying to picture Halloween on a spring night with tender green buds on the trees and the flowers just blooming.

I'm Failing To Visualize.
For me, Halloween is so much the turn of the year, leaves falling, spooks, and All Saints/All Souls days.

Lotsa European countries have adopted the 'Let's have a party and dress up in costumes' part of the holiday, which seems fine and good to me. Any excuse for a party, says I.

[Joanne Bourne]

Now I do remember bobbing for apples in a big galvanized tub. A Halloween party when I was still in single digits.

Haven't seen this since.

And yes, we used to play in the woods and go anywhere as long as we were back by dark. A different world.

[Joanne Bourne]

The 'getting the apple/potato peel off in one strip' must be both ancient and universal. Probably folks peeling -- I dunnoh -- casavas or breadfruit or something in the green upland forests of Pacific island do the same thing.

It's the sort of activity that never makes it into the anthropology books or the history books except when a superstitious custom gets attached to it.

This is one of those 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence things'. We actually know so very little about the past.

[Joanne Bourne]

This is what happens when you let kids run loose.

(jo remembers various incidents from when her own kids were young --

especially the time the two-year-old got on her three-wheeler and took off down the sidewalk shouting, "I'm leaving now and I'm NEVER coming back.")

[Sue McCormick]

In the 1930s neighbors had a Halloween party for the kids: Spaghetti worms in the darkened basement, glowing skeletons, and all. Then the lights were turned on and we bobbed for apples. I was unable to grab any.

I also have always tried to peel the long apple strips. Not been very good at it, but it is fun trying. My husband also plays the long peel game.

Halloween does have a large harvest context to it. But giving the kids a chance to dress up is always a good idea. So I hope those of you with October springs find some way to share that fun with your young ones.

[Joanne Bourne]

I remember that I DID get an apple when bobbing. It was remarked that I did it with no front teeth, but I suspect that is actually an advantage. All those sharp corners to grab with.

I, too, feel Halloween has a big Harvest Festival vibe to it. I don't see that played up in the stores here, but we got corn mazes and hay rides and roadside apples for sale whatnot going on in the countryside.

[kay]

I remember bobbing for apples when I was a child or being where they were. And, it was in a galvanized tub filled with water. Another game at Halloween was standing in two lines, holding an apple under ones chin and someone else trying to get that apple by using their chin/face/neck but no hands. Those apples usually ended up anywhere but the neck area. What made it even funnier was that these games were usually a church function. The apple grab could become quite boisterous and pretty funny, especially when I remember some of the ladies bosoms.

[Jo Beverley]

I think you're right that apples would have been smaller, Mary, but not as small as crab apples. We have pictures from many centuries past of reasonably sized apples. They'd still need a bit of skill to get teeth into. Wouldn't want it to be too easy. It also suggests decent teeth, doesn't it?

[Jo Beverley]

There are sweet apples that do okay in storage, Joanna, and in the past there'd be more. Some apples begin to soften as soon as they're picked. Obviously they don't go to supermarkets! But they can be yummy freshly picked.

[Joanne Bourne]

I've seen prints of those -- move the apple from one person to another -- contests. I think they may be relay races of a sort. The ones I come across were Regency era by the clothing.

Wild and crazy fun among the ancestors.

[Mary T]

I remember apple bobbing from several Halloween parties I attended as a child back in the 1950s. I never actually wanted to try it, though I did enjoy watching it.

Halloween has changed a lot since I was a kid. In seeing how it is observed today, it seems to me that we had more fun in our homemade costumes, running wild in the neighborhood without our parents in attendance. But I don't know, it looks like the kids today are having fun too. I think it is still one of the great joys of childhood.

[Alison Y]

I recall bobbing for apples. Never got one. Though I did not mind getting my face wet, I did not care to get my hair dripping.

I recall making my costumes, once I was dressed as a tube of toothpaste and another year I went as half boy-half girl. The only disappointment was that it was cold and we had to wear coats, thus covering our costumes. It seems it would be great celebrating in the warmer climes.

I think these old customs are great and fun. They connect us to the past, something I feel is important.

[Laura Vivanco]

We call it "dooking" for apples in Scotland. I remember dooking for apples a few times when I was a child and my teenager says he's seen it at a party he's been to, though he didn't give it a go.

I can't remember a lot about it, but obviously if there's still a stalk on the apple that would make things a lot easier. Also, if there's quite a dip and then a rise around the stalk (or place where the stalk used to be), that would give you something to get your teeth into on both sides.

I have a feeling we also had biscuits dipped in treacle which were hung from a string and you could get really sticking trying to dash in and grab a biteful of them before they swung around and hit you on the head.

[Mary Jo Putney]

Mary M, I also totally ROCKED at this particular school word game whether it was Halloween, Thanksgiving, or Christmas. I would have ten times as many words as anyone else. Once a teacher had be read out the list because she was incredulous. *G*

[Joanne Bourne]

Now I think of it there were even medlars. Those go back to Tudor times and were winter-keeping apples that were eaten after they'd ... well. Rotted.

And there were definitely apples designated 'sweet'. I came across this 1562 ref fr'instance:

TAke a sweete apple, and make him hollowe within, make a pouder of Nutmegges, Mace, Synamom, of eche half a dragme, Cloues half a scruple put all this within the apple with a lytle Sugre, and roste it vnder hote ashes, and giue of it vnto the woman euer when the payne commeth vnto her. But yf the payne encrease so
muche that her lyfe is in doubt, put to all this
two graines of opium, and sodaynely the payne wil depart.

Which is advice we can all get behind, says I.

[Joanne Bourne]

Homemade costumes are the best. I feel for folks who don't have the time to do this. It was great fun.

I, too, think kids have as much fun now as they did a half century ago. Fun is more inside the kids, I'd say. Not in the candy or the costumes.

[Joanne Bourne]

I remember all those years we had to wear coats over the wonderful costumes. So much a downer.

But the next year we'd be sweating in out cat costume. so you never knew.

[Joanne Bourne]

It sounds as if somebody's keeping the old traditions alive in your neighborhood. Good on them, says I.

In totally unrelated memories, I remember a pool with a long swirling stream of water, (how did they manage that?) and rubber duckies floating in it. We fished them out with toy fishing rods with ... hooks? Magnets? attractive thoughts? and got a prize.

Now, if only apples came with little hooks on them all this face-wetting could have been avoided.

[Donna Jo]

When I was Elementary School-aged we had Halloween parties that included bobbing for apples. It's trickier than you'd expect.

After we moved to a house with a basement my parents set up a ghost walk in the basement every year. None of this gruesome bloody looking stuff--strictly PG, but it was fun. The whole basement was total dark. You entered through the coal chute and were directed to keep hold of the rope as you walked along. Dangling strings brushed your face like spider webs, "helpers" might grip your hand with a slimy hand to aid you through a tight spot, various moans and chuckles would sound as you walked past, etc. It was a free set up for Scouts, church youth groups, 4-H that they did for about 15 years.
After I graduated I was promoted to the palm-reading gypsy fortune teller to keep the troops busy after they emerged from the basement. That was over 50 years ago, and people who went through it still talk to me about it.

[Janga]

I wonder how much parental concerns about germs has to do with the scarcity of apple bobbing in recent years. I bobbed for apples at Halloween parties as a child, but I don't remember seeing it at parties with either of the two younger generations. Cake-walks, on the other hand, which could be rather rough, were always a part of fall festivals when I was a child and remained popular when the boys were in school. I know tonight's fall festival at my church will include one.

[ML]

Both my son and my daughter have had bobbing for apples at their parties. I think kids don't like the cold water when they dunk their heads in the tub! Combined with the chill of the fall air, it makes for an interesting experience. That said, the kids really got into it, and I mean that literally--they'd be soaked by the time they were done! They could get the apples, but I agree that you need to find smaller ones to make capture feasible. So the tradition is still alive....

[Jana]

I haven't seen bobbing for apples since I was a little girl in the early 80's. I wonder if the gross factor of ducking ones head in a cold basin of water trying to catch an apple with ones mouth had anything to do with its disappearance. It's cold and flu season where I live!

[Sonya Heaney]

Whenever someone says something stupid to me against Halloween, I try and explain its very Celtic origins (as MANY Australians are of Irish etc. heritage!), but people are strange.

It's a hot spring this year, but every year Halloween is a barbeque on the back deck!

[Shannon]

I, too, vaguely remember bobbing for apples when I was in grade school at a fall festival. I don't remember it as a Halloween activity. I have an image of us wearing plastic bibs, so we didn't get soaked, but that may be me confusing a barbecue with a fall festival. (Pig were ready for slaughter in September and October.)

Halloween when I was in grade school seemed to me to be a children's holiday. Now, it seems to be for all ages. And there's houses that are so over-decorated that I'm hoping National Lampoon will do another holiday movie.

[Winona]

We always bobbed for apples when I was a kid. Both in the tub of cold water and on a string. When my girls were little no one wanted their children to dunk their heads in the water, so I attached a string to a ladle and they had to scoop the apples out. Still got wet, but at least the player's heads stayed dry! I have also seen the variation of apple on a string using donuts! Thanks for a great read! And, for the trip down memory lane.

[Joanne Bourne]

There seems to have been a reaction against kids dunking their heads in the water. The same water. Seems odd since everybody goes swimming in the same swimming pool ... but there you are.

Attaching a string to a ladle is ingenious.

[Joanne Bourne]

We have one house in town with about a thousand yards of 'spider web' draped over it. All across the trees. Even up over the roof. Can't imagine how they got it up there.

Every time I drive by I kinda shudder. I'm picturing one huge spider, I think.

Still. The Halloween stuff differs from the Christmas house decorations in that it does not have flashing lights and music. Or at least, not out here in the country.

[Joanne Bourne]

I should think the chilly, shivery, getting your head wet would have come down through the ages unchanged. I will even argue that in the poorly heated houses of the past the buckets and basins were probably COLDER than they are now.

Hanging apples on strings seems kinder.

[Joanne Bourne]

And who knows ... it might make a comeback. All we need is for some TV character to take this up.

I wonder if the teletubbies ....

[Joanne Bourne]

I was a mother and a 'cake-baker' and contributor before I actually saw a cake walk.

Are they regional, I wonder? Or did I just never happen to run into one. Sometimes we just miss random stuff.

[Joanne Bourne]

Haunted Houses. Great creativity.

I remember the 'bowl of eyeballs' -- large grapes.
And the 'plate of worms' -- cold spaghetti.

If I remember correctly, the folks most enthusiastic about setting these up for the kids were the local teenage boys.

[Bona]

One of the 'harvest time' traditions in this part of the world I live in, is taking chesnuts and roast them in coal fires. They do it in the schools as well as in groups of neighbours. It's one of those community festivals. This is something done in all Northern Spain, because of the rainy climate. Although this has been a really warm year.
Apart from that there's a Literary tradition that was followed in all Spain -the performance of one play, Don Juan Tenorio, in All Saint's Eve. I think it's because both of the main characters are dead but the 'hero' is redeemed because of the faith of the good woman, which is a very Catholic turn to the traditional story of Don Juan. Not my favourite one, but traditional anyway.
Nowadays is not so popular, but for instance in my town a group of amateur actors still performs a shorter version of the story in the street.

[Joanne Bourne]

That's fascinating. like to think of a century-old play still being performed to an enthusiastic audience.

Not an easy play, either. It seems open to many interpretations. And how suited to 'Halloween' this play about the dead returning to aid or judge the living.

[Kantu]

I have two October born children; the 20th and 31st. When they were young and I was new in the USA, we used to have costume parties. One of the games I had planned for the kids was apple bobbing in a little pan of water with their hands behind their back. Both kids and parents who stayed back hated it. The kids, because they had never seen it on tv or heard of it, and the parents thought it was too old fashioned for kids to play. The kids were further discouraged by the disapproving looks, body language, attitude of parents. And No Candy involved. My kids and I were having a ball. We thought it was a really cool game to play.Those were the days of heavy duty candy intake and teeth decay. One is 40. He just had a costume party! And she is 28. We just got back from dinner. They do their own thing now.

[Joanne Bourne]

I fear the chain of transmission of this apple-bobbing custom may be broken, never to return.

And you have the basic problem set out, I think. No Candy Involved. We've come to the point where apples seem a pretty tame reward.

Maybe folks could do it with some stupendous treat suspended by strings. Are there some candies that lend themselves to this treatment?