Networking

Hi, Jo here, doing a very brief blog from the Romance Writers of America in New York about the Historical Romance Network.

At last year's conference, author Madeline Hunter gathered some authors together to talk about promoting the genre of historical romance, including spreading the word about the diversity of the genre. 

I wrote more at length, but then my laptop gave me an alarming message and I had to shut it down, losing what I'd written. Therefore, I'm going to be brief. And save often!

I'd love your opinion about the historical romance genre.

Can you find the books you want to read, by period, by type, by style? 

The HRN has a web page where you can find various things we've done to try to help readers. I invite you to look at the media and the excerpt books and tell me what you think. Explore and report back!

If you look at some of the videos, did you enjoy them? Did they make you interested in some new-to-you authors?

Remember, you can always read the beginning of a book on Amazon and some other e-book sellers, which can be very useful even if you plan to buy a print copy. 

What's your feeling about the historical romance genre at the moment? What do you pick up from other readers you know? If you're one of our younger blog readers I'd love to know what sort of HRs you enjoy. 

So that's it, and I don't dare go out to get some images in case the computer crashes again, but I think we're all grown up enough to read without pictures!

Basically I want to know all your thoughts about the genre, its past and future.

There'll be a book awarded to a randomly picked commenter.

Cheers,

Jo

 

 

 

Comments

[Helen]

Hi Jo

I do hope the laptop isn't too bad and starts working better soon for you :)

What a great site I have bookmarked it so as I can go back later and have a better look I love historical romances and at one time that is all that I would read but in all honesty I find myself reading many more HM&B these days but I am always on the lookout for more historicals and have a lot of them on my kindle waiting forme to get to and when I pick one up I find that I just fall into it with a smile on my face and I do hope that they keep going and grow stronger :)

Have Fun
Helen

[Bona]

A long answer here. Sorry for it. I've tried to answer your questions the best way I could.

I think it's easy to find the books I want to read by period, for instance, it's easy to know if a book is set in the Middle Ages or in Roman times (very few romance novels set there, by the way).

BUT it's impossible to know if it belongs to my type & style. You can never know if it's going to be angsty or light, written in simple English or in a more literary and ambitious style.

I'm talking about the 'general mood' of the novel. Is it going to be funny, or melancholic, or nostalgic? Some reviews mention it, but not always. Sometimes even the first chapters of a novel that you can get for free are a little bit misguiding. They can tell a terrible thing that happened to the hero that explains why he distrusts women, for instance, and then you find out that afterwards the story is light and funny.

I've bookmarked the HRN webpage in order to explore it more carefully in the future. I like the general look of it. In this my first visit, I looked for 'Egypt' but found no reference to any book set there. So I don't know if it's going to publish only articles that mention this and that or if it's going to talk about 'books set in'.

Then I tried to do a quick search looking for certain things, but I couldn't find a 'search' button in which write the name of an author or a place or an era. It looks like a webpage still under construction.

What makes me want to read a new-to-me author? Usually, it's a review of the book. I don't remember when was the last time that a blurb made me try a new-to-me-author.

What sort of HRs I enjoy? Good question. I know what I do not enjoy -characters talking as 21st century teenagers, no sense of the time & age.

But why do I like certain historicals and no others? I think the characters themselves have to be compelling. A character-driven story more than a plot-one. I want the book to respect my brain, I don't want easy things or sugarcoted stories. I'm an adult, I know life is a bittersweet experience, I only need a happy ending, but you can challenge me with anything between the first page and the last one. Those that I remember more are those with characters so real that make you feel, as a reader, that they must really exist somewhere.

My thoughts about the genre? People do still read & enjoy historicals, as I see in the blogs I follow. But on the other hand, each time I go to a brick and mortar bookshop, erotica is everywhere, so I don't know how much other subgenres still sell.

What do I want as a reader? A little bit of diversity in it, people from all social classes and races and beliefs, different landscapes and places, unheard-of historical episodes, more awareness of social and genre problems in those times.

[Nancy]

I am a literary snob. I want my regency set books to deal with the upper classes. However, I do wish editors would get off their kick of every hero having to be a duke-- especially as most don't even know the rules of addressing one.
I also want the books to deal mainly with English people and to be set in England.
I do not like books where sex is a substitute for substance and plot so have been sticking closer to authors I know.
The excerpts on web pages and Amazon are often the first well polished first chapter. When one reads the rest of the book one finds an unlikely plot along with errors of title and fact and , often, a book that is historical only in the fact the ladies wear long dresses and people ride in carriages. I didn't find the web page helpful but that is probably more my incompetence than anything.

[Sonya Heaney]

I actually think that these days historical romance deals with women’s issues and feminism better than contemporary romance does.

I have recently been in THE WORST reading slump I’ve ever been in. Usually I read almost 100% review books. However, this week I decided to try books I chose and bought, because reading was making me depressed. I’ve been reading exclusively Harlequin/Mills and Boon historical romances, and wow – these are the books I want to read!

I like the variety, though. Some of my favourite books are about the lower classes.

I always hear about how historical romance is for older readers. I’m thirty-three, so I’m not exactly a teen, reading those horrifically misogynistic NA romances, but I also don’t think I’m in the age group of “older readers”. I used to be more balanced in my reading, but now almost everything I read is historical romance.

[Sonya Heaney]

I should add... who cares about titles when you can have (book or television) Ross and Demelza Poldark?!

[Laura Boon]

Hi Jo, I love the HRN site. Thank you for the introduction :) My favourite historical genre is Regency but I like to dip into others as well, particularly Georgian and Medieval. I have particular favourite tropes (governess, arranged marriage) and most of my favourite authors have a lovely wry and witty sense of humour. I think one of the reasons I enjoy historical romance is the raised stakes, especially for women. Making a mistake in love and marriage could have disastrous consequences so women had to 'play' smarter. This combined with the need to incude (enough) historical detail makes the writing and story telling richer.

[Mary M.]

I soooo agree with Nancy, especially the Dukes and low-plot, high-sex comments.

Y'all better not plop important info in the nine-page sex scenes, 'cuz I'm speed-reading past them, muttering, "Been there, done that, so what? Can we please get back to the story?" I've reached the point where I weed out (by implication) covers with naked muscle men who look like they've been greased up for a weight-lifting competition and/or women with a leg hitched up.

(And have you noticed the guys with their shirts peeled back so their arms are trapped at their sides? What muscular hero would put himself in such a defenseless position? Almost as anachronistic as the virginal heroine standing in a field in a ball dress and over-the-elbow gloves. Occasionally I see both in the same cover shot. Get a clue, publishers!)

After the quick cut-by-cover, I depend on reviews to clue me in to style and manner. The WW blogs and comments often get me started, then I scour Amazon customer reviews, especially the 2* ones, which generally show more thought than the 1* ones. My tastes are eclectic, humorous to dangerous, wise characters to foolish ones. I love getting the often wry viewpoints of the little people—servants, soldiers, shopkeepers, etc.—and learning how life was lived at the time. No vampires, though. References to real people and places most welcome. Modernized language, not.

As you might guess, Regency traditionals are my read of choice. I own about 800 of them, so no matter how much the publishers lean on you ladies, I'll always have something good to read. But I'm hopeful. I know there are still great plot developments and original characters shooting down the pipeline. With the 'net, it's not too hard to find them.

Oh, yeah, the HRN site. It does have potential. Needs more content, though. I'll be watching for progress there. Hope it succeeds, we need it.

[Kathy Lynn Emerson]

Hi, Jo,
I'm probably the oddball here. I read many more historical mysteries than historical romances. That said, most of the mysteries do include a romance subplot, and my favorite historical romances tend to deal with spies or with some dark secret, possibly criminal, in the hero or heroine's past. Historical period isn't a key factor although, since I write about sixteenth century England, I rarely read other people's novels if they are set in the Tudor era. Your books and Mary Jo's have been automatic buys for years and, since I started reading this blog, this is where I find out about other historical romances I might want to read. I'm now a fan of all the Wenches and have also sampled a fair number of books featured here in guest blogs. I will check out the HRN site.

[Faith]

Jo, hope you're having a blast at the conference (laptop problems aside).

Thanks for this site info! It's new to me, and I will have fun noodling around and getting acquainted...this weekend, I hope.

One thing, though, that helps me. I don't have a lot of extra time to make the rounds of favorite web sites, and prefer to get periodic notices to my email box (as I do with Wenches...better late than never). Do you know off hand if HRN has that service? Can only find RSS, which gets sent to an oddball mailbox in my email program equivalent to the Black Hole of Calcutta!

Thanks for this great resource.

Cheers,

F

[Arlene D]

Hello Jo Beverley,
You are one of my favorite authors! (OK, I just had to fangirl!)
I like my historicals about Britsh Isles aristocracy with interesting characters and secondary charaters and some plot other than the matching up of two people. And I like a bit of humor! I love Regency, Victrian and Medieval - but I am not fond of pirate stories. (I am reading an Elizabeth Essex sailing story that may change my mind - no pirates yet!) I am not a fan of American historicals, I think the men were portrayed as more chauvinistic. I also read contemorary, paranormal, and mysteries.
I don't know what rock I have been hiding under, but I recently started reading Anne Gracie's Chance Sisters! Now I need to go back and read everything she has written!
I also love and regularily reread Roberta Gellis' Roslynde series. I enjoy the depiction of historical events as seen through the eyes of the characters in the books.
I'm OK with a little sex, a step or two down the class ladder or alternate lifestyles, but I want a plot!

[Arlene D]

I wish I could spell better; spell check let me down!
(My keyboard on my iPad stopped working in solidarity with your computer!)

[Annette N]

I love historical romances. I have certain periods which appeal to me more than others. It grates on me when some character from the Regency speaks using 20th or 21st century slang terms. I would prefer accuracy (no cell phones in Georgian England, please). But, to be honest if there are tiny glitches in a wonderful story, I can overlook.

But for me, as in every genre I read, I want characters who appeal to me. I want to spend time with people who would be interesting to share time with in real life. I also want humor. I think it is ridiculous to read stories which never include a smile. People have had a sense of humor since there were people. I bet Noah and his sons made jokes about cleanup on the Ark.

For me finding a new to me author comes when someone recommends a book, or I read reviews which make the book sound like something which I would like. There are times all that has not served me well, but generally, the descriptions by fellow readers are pretty accurate.

I thank you for this post, it makes a reader think. What a great concept. And I hope your laptop has had a magical healing.

[Els]

Hi,

I like historical romance novels with the english aristocracy. Especially story's with arranged marriages, forced marriages or wallflowers.
But I don't like story's with mysterie or violence in. If there are amazing or funny secundary characters that is also an advantage.
New books to read I find on goodreads or the internet there are several sites with blogs about books.

[Anne Hoile]

Arlene D, I duplicate everything you have said. The only additional thing I could add would be that I love stories about the banding of wallflowers or friends from school or the regiment, etc. That way I get to meet the H/h again in other stories and get to see how they are doing.

[Janice]

I really wouldn't know how to advise you. I don't feel particularly relevant anymore as I already have my habits and my remaining reading life is unknown but likely short compared to the younger readers who must be brought in to keep the historical romance genre going.

What I am seeing in the ebooks I sample is stuff that is badly in need of editing and professional advice, is influenced much more by TV and movies than by reading and study, and is (to my mind) incredibly superficial, specious and shallow. I can't think of one romance writer under 40 that I find readable. My taste was formed by Austen, Heyer and the great writers of the past, and I can't bear inept prose or the author's own psychodramas masquerading as fiction.

I am also appalled by the laziness of the epub-only authors I've sampled; it's clear they're cherrypicking facts out of google and wiki rather than building up a coherent picture of the era they're trying to write about. As has been pointed out here, they can't even get titles straight, and don't seem to understand that the correct title tells who that character is and where he stands in his society and what his expectations, duties and privileges are -- things that are crucial to character. Making a character a duke means nothing if the writer doesn't understand what a duke does and never show him doing it. All that's left is a bottle story about two people screwing. No wonder romance writing gets confused with porn - sometimes that's all that's left :(

[Janice]

I just checked the HRN site. Omigod, yvonne and I are on it. I'm stunned :) Our little trad regency fan site is recommended. Wow. Yvonne will be so chuffed! I'd better write up some more old books!

Regency Retro Reads
http://hibiscus-sinensis.com/regency/retroread.htm

[Jobev]

Helen, Harlequin Historicals do have great diversity, yes. Laptop seems all right!

[Jobev]

I know what you mean about mood or style, Bona. That's so important, but it's hard to define. Reviews can help with that.

Thanks for the comments on the web site. It is a work in progress and we'd like to know what readers want from it, so your opinions are very important.

[Jobev]

Nancy, I like the upper classes, too.

You're right about the first bit often being polished, but it's something to go by, at least.

[Jobev]

Sonya, as I said above, Harl Historicals offer a great variety. It's great that you like historical romance so much!

[Jobev]

Laura, I quote the latter part of your message in a talk I gave today as that is basically what it was about. Raising the stakes through historical reality. Thanks.

[Jobev]

Thanks, Mary. It is interesting to see some ordinary people's lives.

[Jobev]

Thanks, Kathy Lynn!

[Jobev]

I don't think the HRN has a newsletter, Faith. It's not primarily a promotions organisation. It's more of a genre support one. So, though we hope to have really good information on the genres we probably will rarely have "news."

Would you want an occasional prompt to visit the web page?

The Facebook page is more dynamic.

[Jobev]

Thanks, Arlene! I love those Gellis books, too. And humor. And congratulations on discovering Anne's books. You have a feast.

[Mary M.]

Big Amen, Janice!

[Faith]

Jo, I haven't had too much time to browse, but the big suggestion I'd make so far is to spruce up the graphics.

Remember this site is going up against probably the most gorgeous, luscious covers in publishing these days, and these photos and faux covers are merely okay.

Since a book cover (beyond the author's name and reputation) is what nearly always convinces the reader to look inside...I'm of the opinion that the same thing holds for web sites.

Cheers,

Faith

[Faith]

Yes, an occasional prompt would be perfect...and while I'm fairly FB-resistant, if this same quantity and quality of info was available on FB, I'd sign up to keep informed, definitely.

Also added a suggestion further down in the discussion.

Cheers,

F

[Jobev]

I'm with you on humour, Annette. Good characters need that.

[Jobev]

Thanks, Els.

[Jobev]

That's bleak, Janice! Possibly true, but depressing. I shall go on a hunt for great young writers -- though often I don't know their age.

I think a lot of good young writers go toward paranormal rather than historicals these days.

[Jobev]

Good point, Faith!

[Barbara Elness]

I love historical romance and I have no trouble finding wonderful stories to read, since I have quite a lot of favorite authors who write historicals, I just grab their new books when they come out. I've been reading historicals for many years and my tastes have changed for some of the time periods and type of historicals, but the Regency remains a favorite. I do run across new authors to read frequently, mostly seeing their books featured on book blogs and from mentions on Facebook. It looks to me like there's still plenty of interest in historicals from what I see around the internet.

[Anne Gracie]

Bona, I'm not sure what kind of "Egypt" book you're looking for, and if you're looking for a historical romance set in Ancient Egypt, but my "To Catch A Bride" was set largely in Egypt -- Regency-era Egypt. And if you haven't read "Mr Impossible" by Loretta Chase, its largely set in 19th century Egypt also -- and it's wonderful.

[Anne Gracie]

And Laura Kinsale wrote one that started in Egypt -- can't think of the title. Anyone else remember it. Also wonderful.

[Jikie]

I think this is going to end up very long, so my apologies.

I usually do a google search when looking for books I'd like to read for specific categories and going through blog posts and goodread shelves before choosing books I'd like to read. I am an online lurker and know nobody who reads romance IRL to ask if I'm looking for anything specific.

Disclaimer before talking about the HRN website: I first checked out the website on my phone but usually use my laptop for online browsing.
I was initially very disappointed with the HRN website because the Home menu bar and the Category menu bar weren't working for me (I don't know if this a problem with my phone browser or the HRN's mobile site). But the site works fine on my laptop (for both IE and Firefox). I love the various categories listed and love the idea of excerpt books by categories (haven't checked them out yet!), but disliked having to pause the videos so I can jot down the titles and authors I was interested in. I was expecting book lists rather than videos.
At this point in time I'm probably going to continue googling for blogger recommendations first before checking out the HRN's site.

I love the historical romance genre, but as others have mentioned can we please stop with the dukes?! The feeling I get about all these dukes is the same feeling I get when I see something trying to be cute but failing utterly. Please use dukes in moderation. I love that romance has expanded into other eras like Edwardian and WWII and to other social classes rather than just the aristocracy (though don't get me wrong, I love power couples like Rothgar and Diana and their story is only possible because they are aristocrats).
I do wish that more HR had POCs and were set outside of Europe, though I recognize that genre HR as is has no tropes for POCs and the amount of research an author would have to do to include POCs/set the book outside of Europe would be astronomical and possibly not even available in English.

I'm not quite sure if my last wish is relevant as I am not HR's, or even genre romance's, intended audience. It's directly tied to my identity as a 20-something Asian-American woman and I don't believe there are many of us reading HR. I think that those of us who want such love stories are more likely to be finding them in other storytelling mediums like Korean dramas or Japanese manga. The market is unlikely to meet a demand that is not there.

[Leslie]

For a real life Egypt connection, have you read Lady Almira and the the Real Downton Abbey? Her husband financed the King Tut excavation

[Leslie]

And yet, I love Carla Kelly's Regency books because they are not about aristocrats. But I should confess I love all her books because she writes so well. Well written is the real bottom line for me.

[Janice]

It is bleak, for those of us who love to read. From what I see, the children of today are not learning to love reading and writing, but to love visual arts since technology makes them so easy now.

There will always be readers and writers, I think, but I see that class shrinking to a group as small as in preliterate ages. I won't live to see it myself, but some of you will have to live and work in such an age.

Increasingly I am seeing that the intelligence, knowledge and experience is in the software, not the practitioner (check out the folks on your doctor's staff these days - it can get scary). I think humanity is rapidly making itself obsolete.

I think also that a flight from technology (because it's so difficult to comprehend) while using it and depending on it (because it's so ubiquitous) is one of the dangers of our age. I see people suffering from depression and purposelessness everywhere. I have no idea what we ought to do about it or whether it can even still be changed.

Perhaps it accounts in part for the growth in paranormal romance and adventure - a setting in which people feel more in control.

I'm going back to my Austen novel now, back in that era when people still mattered and still did things themselves.

[Laura Michaela Banse]

Hahaha! I always seem to start out writing about a character that is a duke, only to go back and change it at a later time because I'm just not sure.

Jo Beverly actually has some awesome resources on her own site regarding titles. I go for Victorian historicals if I want non-titled characters.

[Laura Michaela Banse]

I like historicals the best, whether it is romance or mysteries. Combine those, and I'm sold. I also enjoy paranormals and some fantasy, such as steampunk and gas lamp.

[Laura Michaela Banse]

I belong to some great historical romance books on the Facebook, including Putney's Peerage. I get a lot of incredible recommendations there. As a writer, I also love asking the opinions of the readers and other writers - swapping information.

And yet, I don't believe I've been to the HRN website before. Booking this immediately.

As for new books, I do a lot of the free kindle books. If I like the author, I look for their other works. If I don't, then I didn't lose any money.

[grettel]

Hi Mrs. Beverly!
Since I'm not a native English speaker, I hadn't read any romance novel in English before my boyfriend gave me one that he got by mail seventeen years ago. However, I've read and loved romance novels from historical authors like Miguel de Cervantes and Rafael Perez y Perez (both Spanish authors) since my thirteenth birthday, so I decided to try to read that one using my limited commanding of the language. That first novel was a fantastic experience (even though I took me 2 weeks to read it) and it got me hooked to the genre, but for the first years I only got three or four paperbacks because they were difficult to get in my country. Then, I learned to shop online and I was able to get the rest of the series in which the first novel belonged. Then, I discovered review websites and through them I was able to choose by rating and popularity the novels I wanted to buy (my budget for novels is no so big), that way I only bought highly rated novels and also the ones I was really interested. Later, I also discovered other genres besides historical, authors' webpages, and the ultimate help for foreign countries fans: digital bookshops. Nowadays, I usually go to the webpages of my favorites historical authors to search for the next novel, and then I look for them on the digital bookshops or sellers' websites. I love that I can read sample chapters, it helps me to decide whether I want to read a book right away or save it for later. I also check social media, sometimes I get to known about a historical romance in which I might be interested to read. And you know what: I married the boy who gave me that first novel.

[Jobev]

Janice, there are young writers. Plenty of them. But few are writing historical. They're writing YA, NA, fantasy and some SF. But at RWA there were so many youngsters, some winning awards, my friends and I were thinking of designating ourselves the crones.*G*

[Jobev]

Jikie, I hear what you're saying, and I don't think you're alone, so it's the sort of thing the HRN can work on. For example, in an anthology I was in called Dragon Lovers Karen Harbaugh had an historical story set in Japan with a Japanese dragon.

Mary Jo has brought Asian elements into some of her books, in particular China Bride. Jade Lee has many books with oriental elements. Perhaps you can add some titles for a list on the HRN.

[Jobev]

That's great, Laura. In addition to the free books for Kindle, you can check out the excerpt books on the HRN. Also free.

[Jobev]

"I married the boy who gave me that first novel."

But of course! How wonderful that you persisted and read that book. There are a lot of titles in translation, but sometimes the translations aren't that great. Do you always read in English now, or do you sometimes read translations.

[Karin]

I read a lot of different styles of romance, but almost always pre-20th century. They range from very traditional Georgette Heyer/Signet Regency books to medievals, mystery and spy plots and light comedy-of-error stories. I'd say at least 80% are set in England, but I also like an occasional book set in the American wilderness, Europe, the Near East, or elsewhere in the world. From my point of view, the historical romance genre is the best it's ever been, and I've got piles of books I haven't gotten around to reading yet. A lot of them are older books reissued in e-format that I am just now discovering, for instance I recently discovered Carola Dunn, and she's got dozens of books. But there are lots of great new books out there too, by Courtney Milan, Erin Satie, Erica Monroe, Meredith Duran, Julie Ann Long, Theresa Romain, Caroline Linden, Donna Thorland, Vanessa Kelly, Cecilia Grant, Elizabeth Essex, really it's an embarrassment of riches.
Before I buy a book, I usually check out the Amazon sample, or if I'm in a bookstore I start reading the first chapter or flip through the book a bit. I love marriage of convenience, Cinderella stories and road trip stories. I don't mind if the book has a lot of sex or no sex, as long as the writing is intelligent and the story and characters interest me. I hate books that just use the historical setting as wallpaper, or have the characters talking like modern people. That's why I love the Wenches' books, you always get the history right! I don't need the characters to be nobility, but some of the cross-class romances seem rather unlikely.

I get my recommendations from online buddies at a historical romance forum at paperbackswap.com, and also from blogs. I love the "what we've been reading" posts, that's where I find a lot of new authors.

[grettel]

I rather read in English because I don't like to read translated jokes or idioms, they don't make any sense in other languages. Spanish is very rich but I always have the feeling that something is missing. I don't like to read translations from Spanish to English, either.

[Donna Moore]

Jo,
Really appreciate your blogs. Not until this one did I know about HRN! Love, love, romance novels, especially historicals, so much so that I'm writing a swashbuckling trilogy set in 1715. You can bet I'll be checking HRN often. Thanks for the tip. And, thanks for penning those mesmerizing historical romances.

[Judith Laik]

Jikie, in addition to the books Jo mentioned (I particularly love Jade Lee), have you read any by Jeannie Lin? She's a new favorite of mine. She writes a variety of settings, from 19th century San Francisco to ancient China, and it looks like she has recently ventured into Steampunk. I'm not Asian, but, second to my favorite Regency period, I love to seek out unusual historical periods and settings. Her books always enlighten me about places and people I don't know much about.