Chicks-in-Pants (part 1)

Anne here, for April's Ask-A-Wench discussion and this time it's about the "chick-in-pants" trope. 

Reader Davida sent us this message (and thus wins a book): "I would love to read a book where the heroine is forced to dress like a man.  Georgette Heyer's  The Masqueraders is one of my favorites but just picturing one of the Wenches writing a book with a Masquerade in the storyline would be thrilling.  I think the feeling when the hero doesn't understand why he is having feelings for his "friend" is very sexy and exciting." 

We're expanding this question to explore the whole idea of the "chick-in-pants" trope -- which seems to have gone a little out of fashion, possibly because readers feel it's not very believable. But is that the case? The portrait on the right is of a young man -- William Fraser in 1801. Could he not be a woman in disguise?

Over to the wenches.

Pat Rice kicks off, saying: It’s very hard, in romance, to create a situation where the hero is such a blockhead that he doesn’t guess our trouser-wearing heroine is female within a chapter or two. But I like the notion of him playing along with her for a while, if the situation calls for it. I tend to write about women who wear trousers because they’re the most practical clothing for the tasks they have to do. In DENIM AND LACE, Samantha has had to be the man of the family on a cross-country trip. Wrangling horses and shooting dinner just can’t be done properly in skirts. The hero isn’t fooled by her name or her trousers and eventually wagers her out of her unladylike garb and into skirts, which was a lot more fun for me to write. (*Note from Anne, Denim and Lace was the first Patricia Rice book I ever read, and I became an instant fan.)

 Or in REBEL DREAMS, the heroine’s father has died, leaving her in charge of a seaside warehouse. Climbing on and off ships, digging into barrels, and dealing with men all day just comes more naturally in trousers, although she’s perfectly capable of donning an evening gown for dinner. Again, the hero is only briefly fooled, however. Once that leather apron is off, she’s all female.  

That’s what makes the wonderful variety of romances—I think I find it sexier and more exciting when the hero accepts the heroine as she is!  

Nicola Cornick says:
The very first time I read a story with a trouser-wearing heroine was when we studied Twelfth Night at school and I thought it was loads of fun and started seeking out other stories where the heroines dressed as a man. It seemed a pretty popular theme when I was first reading romance books back in the 1970s but you don’t see so much of it now. It is a hard plot to make convincing and that’s maybe why I have never tried to write it myself.  

In the few cases where I have had a woman wearing breeches it’s been for practical reasons.  In Whisper of Scandal, Joanna is travelling on horseback through the Arctic and it is far more sensible for her to ride astride so she dons a riding jacket, breeches and boots, much to the shock (and secret approval) of her husband. In Desired, the heroine Tess wears male attire to attend radical political meetings in order to blend in with the crowd and when the hero comes looking for her quickly slips out of the trousers and into a ball gown! It’s a fun theme to play with!

Susan King says: Heroines in hero's clothing--I love that story element and have used it several times either in passing or as a continuing story thread. A girl in guy's clothing can set up all sorts of fun challenges and surprises for plot and character. It's not just the male clothing that creates interesting possibilities, but what goes with that that. I'm often writing an adventure romance, where the heroine is skilled at something considered typically male in a historical context--like archery, swordplay, riding, highway thieving, Border rieving, and so on. I love playing with the challenges that these elements can add to a story, taking it out of a predictable historical context and adding something unexpected but historically plausible.  

So far, I've written at least six heroines who have a strong purpose to dress in male gear. In Raven's Wish, the heroine wears a kilted plaid and linen shirt like her male Highland cousins; in Raven's Moon she rides as a highwayman to avenge her brother --- and this heroine even appeared in pants and puffy shirt on the original stepback cover! In Heather Moon, the heroine wears breeches and armor to ride with her Border reiving kinsmen. The heroine of The Swan Maiden is a forest rebel and master archer; in The Sword Maiden, she is skilled with a sword. And in Lady Macbeth, the Scottish queen trains with weapons and dons armor to ride into battle, something completely possible for her time and culture.      

In historical fiction, a woman in male clothing breaks convention--and it shows that the character can take a risk, think for herself, be independent, courageous, determined. A lady in trousers, trews, kilt or breeches can bewilder the hero and make him see a woman in a new light, with new respect. This woman is not predictable.  

In my stories, the hero always figures it out quickly--he's no dummy. His heroine is far too feminine, and he is far too astute and observant (and wry--and I love a hero who accepts and supports whatever the heroine needs to do, though he may gently tease her about it). A chick in pants who has a reason to keep up with the guys, all within a historical context, can make the romance game intriguing, dangerous, adventurous, sexy, playful and more.    

Cara/Andrea says: The "chick in pants” trope can be fun  . . . but it does call for a healthy suspension of reality. I remember reading Lord Harry, a vintage Catherine Coulter Regency, which was a fun plot and enjoyable. . . but sort of stretched credulity that Henrietta could masquarade as a man for 2/3 of the book, and then challenge the hero to a duel—and fight him with swords!—(she thinks he murdered her brother) before he realizes “Harry” is “Henrietta.”

The legendary Signet Regency editor Hilary Ross and I once had a long discussion on the subject . . . we agreed that the indoor lighting back then would have helped obscure faces and shapes during the evening activities. But the idea that a woman could pull off the deception for long was slim to none. Voice, posture, walk, mannerisms—women and men ARE different! A consummate actress with the right body type could perhaps pull it off, but other than that . . .

Still, it’s an appealing plot device. Like the other Wenches, I’ve used the trope for a heroine who is in danger or needs to travel without attraction attention. But the hero always very quickly sees through the ruse, and then helps with the scheme. My first foray  into “Chick in Pants” was in The Hired Hero, one of my first Andrea Pickens Regencies. The hero won’t help the heroine, who is being pursued by an unknown enemy,  get to London. (She's suffered a carriage accident and has ended up, exhausted and injured at his country estate. Desperate, she finds some of his old clothes from boyhood in the attics and sneaks out early one morning to steal his stallion. The earl spots a scamp coming out of the barn and gives chase. Here’s an excerpt:

    Davenport reached for the reins as he drew abreast. Nero shied violently to the right, but knowing his stallion's habits, he was ready for it.

    The lad was not. As the earl's hand instinctively followed the movement of the horse's head, the sudden change of stride pitched the young rider forward. He lost his stirrups and slipped sideways from the saddle. Both of his hands clung to the edges of the leather while his feet hung precariously close to the flailing hooves. Davenport managed to grab the reins and fought to bring the spooked stallion under control. Suddenly, with a low grunt of pain, the lad lost his grip. One hand fell away—in another moment he would be trampled.    

    Served him right, thought Davenport. His own neck was at risk too, trying to manage two wildly galloping animals. But with a silent curse he let go of Nero and reached down to grab the lad's collar.

   "Let go!" he shouted, as he reined in on his own mount.    

    The lad needed no encouragement. His strength was gone and his fingers slipped from the saddle. Winded from the hell-for-leather galloping, Davenport's mount slowed to a trot, then stopped dead in its tracks, sides heaving and flanks lathered with sweat.    

    Holding the young thief by the scruff of his jacket, as if he were disposing of a weasel from a dovecot, the earl was sorely tempted to wring the lad's neck. Instead he satisfied himself by dropping him none too gently onto the rutted ground.    

    "You damn fool," cursed the earl as he dismounted. "I should take my crop to you. Don't you know you could be trans—"    

    It was then that he noticed that the lad's hat had fallen off. There was a mass of honey-colored hair spilling over the pale face. His eyes traveled lower, to where a pair of slender—and very shapely—thighs were revealed by a pair of tight buckskin breeches. With a start he realized they were his breeches, from when he was a boy.    

    He closed his eyes for an instant and swore yet again . . .

Anne again: I do so enjoy that moment of revelation when the hero realizes. . .  And because the wenches had so much to say on this particular topic, I'm splitting the post in two. Chick-in-Pants Part 2 will be posted on Friday 24th April, with opinions and examples from Mary Jo Putney, Jo Beverley, Joanna Bourne and me — and we don't all agree. There are also a few more fun moment-of-discovery excerpts, as well as some more 19th century portraits so stay tuned.

In the meantime, what about you? Are you fond of the chick-in-pants trope or not? Do you have a favorite example? Leave a comment and I'll send a copy of my own chick-in-pants book to a randomly selected commenter.

Comments

[Sarah E Webber]

I really liked Connie Brockway's No Place for a Dame because the heroine was dressing as a man so that someone would listen to her astronomy theories.

[HJ]

This is one of my favourite tropes. My favourite is Lady Rogue by Suzanne Enoch, in which the heroine has dressed as a boy for years, and therefore is convincing. The hero sees through her soon, but she fools society generally -- much like Heyer's Masqueraders.

[kay]

I watched a murder mystery the other night which started out with a woman dressed as a man. As soon as she appeared on the screen my first thought was "that is a woman." However, my husband didn't notice. I eventually told him. Her face was just too soft, even with the fake beard. I've always had a problem with heroes in books who cannot see through the disguise. Unless the woman is very masculine I don't see how she could get away with it and most heroines in books are not masculine. I do remember some books where the hero caught on right away and deliberately made life miserable for the heroine - those were fun stories and if that's the way the trope is used I'm fine with it, but I don't like my heroes to be nincompoops. I prefer a jerk hero to a nincompoop.

[Lillian Marek]

I have on occasion seen teenagers in androgynous garb and not been certain which, if any, were girls. I think the chick-in-pants is more easily believable when the chick is quite young. After that, she needs loose clothing. ;-)

[Mary Frame]

I love this story element when I'm reading because I am a long time lover of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, as well! Definitely favorite of his comedies, although Midsummer Night Dream is a close second.

One of the books in Eloisa James' Duchess series features a female lead dressing as a man, and it's a really good one. Duchess by Night (had to look it up! It's been a while since I read that one).

Another excellent masquerading female is Ridiculous by DL Carter, very cleverly done and a funny book to boot :)

Historians have discovered that there may have been quite a few women masquerading as men--specifically in the Western US in the 1800's. There was a fairly well known stage coach driver that was presumed to be a man they did not discover was actually a female until she passed away.

[Landra Graf]

I like this trope a lot and always love a book where a woman is not afraid to don some pants. On of my favorites is by Connie Brockway, All Through The Night where the heroine masquerades as a thief. Sure the hero figures things out right away, but it's still sensual, dangerous and exciting to put women in situations that challenge the status quo. Back then women in pants as super taboo.

[Dee Foster]

There are several stories that I've read where the chick where's pants & I've loved them. However, at my age remembering specific titles is hard...I have a spreadsheet that lists books I've bought & which ones I've read so I don't forget & reread the same ones over & over for pity sake! LOL

[Elinor Aspen]

I have always enjoyed the chick-in-pants trope. One of my favorites is Laura Kinsale's The Dream Hunter. It is more believable in a culture where male fashions are more concealing.

As Mary Frame pointed out, historians have identified numerous examples of women successfully masquerading as men for years. I saw an experiment (I think it was on an episode of NatGeo's Brain Games) where people checking into a hotel didn't notice that the clerk was swapped for a completely different person halfway through. This demonstrates that people are not nearly as observant as they think they are. They see what they expect to see. That makes the chick-in-pants trope believable to me.

[Janga]

This is one of my favorite tropes. I don't have the problem suspending disbelief that some readers do. After all, if as many as a thousand real life women passed as men in order to fight in the Civil War, I don't find it difficult to believe that fictional women succeed in their disguises.

I wrote a piece for Heroes & Heartbreakers several years ago about my top ten chicks-in-pants romance novels. I mentioned Twelfth Night, The Hidden Hand by E. D. E. N. Southworth (1819-1899), and Georgette Heyer's These Old Shades, The Masqueraders, and The Corinthian as historical precedents, and my list included books by Joan Wolf, Carla Kelly, Christina Dodd, Connie Brockway, Julia Ross, and Eloisa James along with three Wench books by Jo, Mary Jo, and Anne and ended with an excellent YA historical, The Education of Bet by Lauren Baratz-Logsted. An updated list would have to include Chase in Sarah MacLean's Rules of Scoundrels series.

[Linda]

One of my favs! Darlene Marshall's Sea Change is a really good such story. The heroine disguises as boy in order to be able to practice medicine & to travel to Jamaica to live with her Godfather. Story was very plausible. An amazing heroine.

[Juanita Glass]

Women have forever needed to prove themselves in the Man's World. Women of today have no idea what women of yesteryear suffered. I am 78 years old, and when I was young, women were just not treated as they should have been. No consideration for the things they faced daily. Most women only had their home and children, a career was not possible in the normal life of most women. And abuse was frequent because "men" were
"in charge"

My mom worked all my life, and I was considered pitiful because my mom was not at home and I was a latch-key-kid. (Never bothered me as I was capable of seeing to myself, having been taught by a very strong woman) I can understand the need to break free and for a short time (because it was rare to be able to sustain such a guise) to be able to enjoy the freedoms men took for granted. Women have always had far more intelligence than the men of the world understood.

I love when the female character spends some time in a male atmosphere as a male. I fear for them, but understand and love the adventure.

[Susan/DC]

I'm not too fond of this trope even though there have been books with it which I've enjoyed. I agree with kay in that they don't work unless the heroine is quite young or fairly masculine looking and/or the hero is unobservant. Since I don't care for very young heroines (unless the hero is very young too), those books are fails for me on both fronts. There certainly are masculine looking women in Real Life, just as there are feminine looking men, but that is certainly not the standard description of a Romance heroine (she may be tall, she may have very little bosom, but usually there is no doubt she is female). If the hero doesn't notice she doesn't have an Adam's apple and never has a 5 o'clock shadow, I begin to wonder about him. However, if he catches on quite quickly, the book may be fun and romantic. So, like much else in the Romance genre, a good author can make it work while a less talented one has me putting down the book after the first chapter or so.

[Annette N]

During and after the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, it was discovered that some of the young men who fought, were injured or sometimes killed were actually young women.

[Rose]

I enjoy the trope. Lord Harry by Catherine Coulter was probably the first example of it in action that I read. When done well, it is a fun and playful concept.

[Janice]

I've read too many of these, I think; I can't suspend disbelief any longer. The deception can only work if the circumstances are continually just right -- right lighting, right distance, right clothes, effective disguise -- and no sensory clues other than visual.

Even without perfume, women smell different than men and humans pick that up subconsciously; they may not suspect exactly what's off, but they know something is.

And what does she do when she is menstruating? Disappear for a day or two? Awkward. No tampons then. And she can't pee with the boys, or the girls, not in those clothes.

Because these are matters not usually brought up in a romance (it's supposed to be an escapist fantasy, after all), the author gets by by not referring to them at all. Some readers can ignore the practicalities, but I can't anymore.

I think it's even worse when the switch goes the other way - a man disguised as a girl, as in Heyer's The Masqueraders. I find Prudence's disguise possible (for short periods of time and with enormous care) but Robin's is flat out unbelievable to me. So he's small and slight, but he still has the musculature of the swordsman and the hands, beard and adam's apple of the male. Even the voluminous clothing of the day can't conceal all that. And what does he do for cleavage? He can't pee with the boys in those clothes, or the girls either, and there's not always a handy patch of woods around.

All this ignores that men and women talk about different subjects and they talk in different ways. Simple silence wouldn't cover all situations.

In short, clothing gender switch *in a romance* only works for me when it's not a disguise but a conscious clothing choice for a specific situation, or for a very short period of time, to fool strangers or other people who would only see the masquerader at a distance for a short time (such as an escape situation) -- never to fool someone who has a closer acquaintance. That worked for a woman I know who was a teen during the Nazi occupation of Hungary -- she dressed as a boy to go to her job and avoid the "attentions" of Nazi soldiers on the streets - but she worked at a place that knew she was female and understood the necessity.

I am getting very hardened about this and other tropes, and I sometimes resent an author who thinks I can be fooled into believing patent nonsense so easily. Grump :)

[Anne Gracie]

Sarah, I, too enjoy those stories where a woman is attempting to be taken seriously in some intellectual field.

[Anne Gracie]

HJ, yes, I think the dressing as a boy for years would enable a girl to be comfortable in her masculine attire and carry it off.

[Anne Gracie]

Kay, the thing is, some women can be pretty but not in a soft way. I have a friend like that, whos thin, with slender hips, small breasts and broadish shoulders (she was a champion swimmer in her youth) and sculptured features. Shes often mistaken for a guy, and even sometimes when shes dressed up in a particular way, people wonder whether shes a drag queen. One time she and her husband were walking home, hand in hand, and some young thugs in a car driving by yelled out poofters! (ie gays)

[Anne Gracie]

I dont like my heroes to be nincompoops. I prefer a jerk hero to a nincompoop.

I love this. You can cure a guy of being a jerk (I hope) but not of being a nincompoop. :)

[Anne Gracie]

I think thats true, Lilian. At a certain age young, slim-hipped, lanky girls start to develop curves. But not all of them.

[Anne Gracie]

Yes, indeed, Mary -- there have been many many documented cases where a man has been discovered to be a woman only after death or grave injury. So if women could carry off the deception in real life, it can certainly be used in fiction.

[Anne Gracie]

It was super taboo, Landra and at some times and places in history it was illegal.
And certainly it was a very risky thing to do — mens attitudes (in history) to women in male dress was very different to women who dresses conventionally. For some it was an open invitation to treat her however they wanted -- no holds barred. So for me, women in fiction need a really strong reason to dress as a man.

[Anne Gracie]

There are times when I wished Id kept a list of all the books Ive read and marked down what I thought of them at the time. But at times I just power through books, flinging myself into their world, and forgetting titles and sometimes authors. But I do love having books to reread and reread.

[Anne Gracie]

The Dream Hunter is a superb book. Has Laura Kind=sale ever written one that isnt wonderful?Youre right about people not being as observant as they think -- often people see what they expect to see. And today we expect to see women in pants, but in the days when it was shocking for women to wear male attire, its no wonder they they were able to pass more easily.

[Anne Gracie]

Janga, that sounds like a fabulous list! Ive done a quick search, and for those whod like to follow up on Jangas list in more detail, heres the url for her article:
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2011/11/chicks-in-pants-cross-dressing-heroines
Thanks, Janga.

[Anne Gracie]

Thanks, Linda -- thats a title and author new to me. Always happy to get a recommendation.

[Anne Gracie]

Juanita, youre so right. Its very hard for the young reader of today to understand just how it was -- even in the fairly recent past.
The idea that when you married a man, all your worldly possessions went to him and only his good nature protected you -- thats a scary thought.
But as you say, there were always strong women, and they often raised their daughters to be strong. And some of them broke the mould for female behavior, and some of them did it quietly and inconspicuously. And some of them dressed as men.

[Anne Gracie]

Yes, youre right, Susan -- there are difficulties in carrying it off, but its all in the execution of the story.

I would argue, however, that some men, with fair skin and hair, almost never have a visible five oclock shadow. And some who do have one, shave twice a day. As for the adams apple, a high collar and complicated tie could hide that lack quite easily.

[Anne Gracie]

Yes, and not only in the revolutionary war -- in the continental war in Europe it happened too. And in society there are numerous accounts or women who passed as men all their lives.

[Anne Gracie]

I havent read Lord Harry, Rose, and its been mentioned before, so maybe Ill have to find it and read it. Thanks.

[Anne Gracie]

Janice I take your point -- but history tells us so many women actually did manage to pass themselves off as men, and living in close and rough circumstances -- like war -- with lots of other men, so they must have managed all those things somewhow. The smell thing is interesting — Ive had heroines use scents to disguise themselves -- in my Honorable Thief, when my heroine is dressed as the Chinese burglar, she uses Chinese scents to add to that identity -- adding a cultural element, rather than a gender one. She also worse loose, baggy clothes and only went out in the dark, though. :)

[Glenda]

I do enjoy them. One of my favorites where it takes the hero awhile to figure out reality is intended to be comic: D.L. Carter's Ridiculous. Which is sort of the point. :-)

[Anne Gracie]

Sounds like a fun read, Glenda. Thanks.

[Mary M.]

D. L. Carter's Ridiculous is great! It features not just one but _two_ cross-dressers, a brother and sister. Of course it's ridiculous (well-named, that) and highly improbable, but also tongue-in-cheek and great fun—like something Georgette might have cooked up on a fey day.

[Anne Gracie]

OK, youve convinced me. Ive just bought it. Thanks

[Sue W. McCormick]

No one has mentioned a female "crime load" and her significant other who appear in several novels. And I can't be specific here because I can't think how to get my facts straightened out. I'm pretty sure that these characters show up in several of the Amanda Quick (Jayne Ann Krentz) stories. If it is indeed Krentz, it would be Quick, because the setting is Victorian. At any rate, the first time we meet Adam and "his" friend (we meet the friend first), the heroine knows of the cross dressing, but the casual crowd doesn't notice.

As I am writing this, I am beginning to be sure that they are Amanda Quick characters and that one of their appearances is in one of the early Victorian Era Arcane society books. My problem is that I'm not in reach of my books right now and don't know how else to look up these characters.

[Vicki W.]

Oh yeah...I remember those Amanda Quick books. And it is in the Victorian Arcane books. Was it The Perfect Poison? Harlow was another of the characters that were women as men I think.

One of my favorite in this theme is Mary Jo Putney's The Rogue and The Runaway. I read that one at least once a year.

Apparently I am able to suspend belief and just enjoy the story as long as it is well written. What tends to get to me is when there is too much angsty thoughts and twitterings in characters heads. That has been known to make me throw up my hands and say bleah...on to the last 30 - 50 pages to see how it turns out.

Oddly enough, I just read the Jo Beverly Malloren book (My Lady Notorious) that has Chastity living and dressing as a man.

[Sue W. McCormick]

Vicki,

Thank you for remembering for me. As I said, I can't get to my books right now to verify, but i thought these recurring supporting characters were worth a mention. I think Harlow is the one we first meet.

[Patricia Rice]

I'm loving these comments! While I agree that women HAVE disguised themselves as men and some men/women can easily pass for the opposite gender--we're talking romance here. Would our heroine really fall in love with that guy at the beginning of the blog? Now if genre tropes allowed us to broaden our perspectives so that the manly looking heroine could fall in love with the effeminate gentleman--I'd love that story! That would open up whole new levels of the playground.

Thanks for the lovely blog, Anne, and the nice comment about DENIM.

[Anne Gracie]

Sue, I do remember at least one Amanda Quick novel in which the hero took the masculine-attired heroine on adventures at night, ventuing to dangerous spots and places not frequented by respectable females. Cant remember the title, either.

[Anne Gracie]

Thanks Vicki -- the Amanda Quick one I was talking wasnt one of her arcane society stories, I think, but her earlier books. But Im sure its a trope a lot of writers have revisited more than once.

[Anne Gracie]

the manly looking heroine could fall in love with the effeminate gentleman--Id love that story! Go for it, Pat. Its not a trope that I think traditional publishers would go for, but I bet if you wrote it and self-published it, it would fly off the shelves.

[Jane]

In an interesting coincidence, I just finished reading Sisters of Shiloh, in which two sisters masquerade as men to enlist in the Confederate army. It's fiction, but many women actually did enlist. It's an interesting topic.

Another example is Adriana, a Regency romance by Catherine Moorhouse. The heroine goes in search of her brother, dressed in men's clothing, and confuses the heck out of the hero.

[Karin]

Thanks for that list, Janga! The Word Wenches have written some of my favorite chick-in-pants books, including My Lady Notorious, To Catch a Bride and The Rake.
Another great book is "Almost A Scandal" by Elizabeth Essex. The heroine takes her brother's place as a midshipman aboard a Royal Navy vessel; her whole family is in the Navy and she knows everything about sailing, and is tall, slender and tomboyish, so although the hero finds out who she is, she is able to pass with the rest of the crew. The whole series is excellent and although it's got lots of historical detail about ships and naval battles, it doesn't skimp on the romance either. I saw one reviewer characterize it as "Patrick O'Brien with hot sex"!

[Karin]

I just wanted to add that there is a fairly recent non-fiction book out, "Liar, Temptress, Soldier, Spy" which focuses on the different roles women played in the Civil War. The "Soldier" of the title was Sarah Edmonds, who disguised herself as a man and joined the 2nd Michigan Infantry. Ironically, later on in the war she was recruited to become a spy, which required her to don various costumes, so at times she was a woman disguised as a man disguised as a woman.
Stories like this are what make it perfectly easy for me to suspend disbelief in unlikely romance plotlines!

[Mary Jo Putney]

Vicki, I'm glad that you read and reread The Rogue and the Runaway/Angel Rogue! In that story, Maxie is relying on her small size, breast binding, loose clothes and hat for protection on her long hike the length of England, and she avoids people. Being a tough American, she's equal to anything. *G* Maxie is a favorite heroine of mine.

[Anne Gracie]

Karin, how very interesting that book--and that woman-- sounds. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Anne Gracie]

Love the Patrick OBrien reference. The book sounds interesting, too. And because so many males went to sea as quite young boys, I do believe that a girl of the right sort could pass as a boy. Thanks, Karin.

[Anne Gracie]

Jane, I think its the confusing the heck out of the hero that Davida and many other readers -- me included -- particularly enjoy in this trope. Thanks also for the Sisters of Shiloh reference.

[Anne Gracie]

Thanks also for the kind words about my own chick-in-pants story, Karin.

[Sue W. McCormick]

Anne, there was at least one Quick novel BEFORE the Arcane one (I think the heroine was a novelist who was studying psychics) and then there was at least one Arcane Society book also featuring this supporting pair of chicks in pants.

I hope that I will find time tomorrow to get into my boxed books (we're reconfiguring the library) and find these books. If so, I'll return with titles and the names of the cross-dressing supporting females.

[Anne Seebaldt]

Anne, there are literally a dozen different stories I've heard of women passing themselves off as men in the Revolutionary War and American Civil War ... much easier for a woman who has a very slight build to pull it off, but then she generally has to pass as a very young man. Again, works well for, say, the American Civil War, which had some very youthful enlisted personnel.

[Anne Gracie]

Thanks, Anne -- there were stories also about women fighting in the Napoleonic wars -- some accompanying their husbands, and others just going by themselves with nobody the wiser. And of course, their gender was discovered when they were killed or wounded.
Amazing and intrepid women, werent they?

[RevMelinda]

I second Karin's recommendation of Elizabeth Essex's "Almost a Scandal." It is really wonderful--well-written, adventurous, full of period detail--and immediately became a desert-island-keeper for me. The "chicks in pants" trope is one I adore (Heyer's "Masqueraders" being my gateway drug into the world of romance). Thanks for some book suggestions that are new to me, and I'm looking forward to seeing more wenchly comments in Part 2!

[Jill Savage]

I can think of two favourites which i haven't read in ages, so I'll need to dust them off again. Laura Kinsale's Prince of midnight where the heroine was a highwaywoman in disguise. And second was Johanna Lindsey's Gentle Rogue. This book was the first I had read of the Malory series and I was hooked. The heroine Georgina, posed as a cabin boy George, so she could get to America.

[Diane Eberly]

Loved the article on women (chicks) in pants. It makes an amusing story and keeps your interest. I've read so many books I can't recall one in particular, but I just love to read historical romance, anything Scottish/Irish, Highlanders, rogues, gentry. Just love the time period of regency, edwardian, victorian anything.

[Kantu]

I love the chick-in-pants! There were some books where the impoverished widowed dowdy ladies were smugglers of laces, and brandy and port,and whatnot from France. And then , I read a couple more where they were disguised as highwaymen, "to stand and deliver". Very exciting. Specially, if the hero is caught in the fray. You are right on all counts thought. I not sure who said it, but the hero catches on really quickly. In the smuggler book though, I have to say, he was suspicious, but no proof and therefore no confrontation till about the middle of the book. Or he gets wounded by bullets flying around.

I'm sure you Wonderful Wenches are the Modern version of the Chick-in-Pants. Surely you would get some positive response to more challenging chick-in-pants books today? Good luck!

[Carmen Moschetti]

I loved Georgette Heyer's These Old Shades, it had a really great plot and of course the Heroine was very boyish looking and posed as a younger male, one that was not fully grown and a little effeminate, as they sometimes are. Another book I loved with a chick in pants was by Kathleen Woodiwiss - Ashes in the Wind. It is set during the Civil War and the Heroine posed as a grubby vagabond, donning dirty clothes each morning and dirtying her hair and face so as to be unrecognisable. It was an enjoyable tale.

[Mary Jane]

Here is an actual case appropriate to the Regency period:

James Miranda Stuart Barry. (née Bulkeley [?]) Born England 1795. Died 1865. In the day when medicine only accepted men as students one woman disguised herself as a man and entered the Edinburgh University in 1809. As a doctor in the British army she served in the far corners of the British Empire and gained a reputation as an outstanding surgeon. In 1857 Dr. Barry was posted to Canada where he was well respected for his fight to provide cleaner hospital facilities and better food for the working soldiers. An odd small “man” with little or no facial hair Dr. Barry was considered an eccentric. It would not be until death, when the body was being prepared for burial that it would be discovered that the renowned doctor was indeed a woman! It must have cause a stir in the Victorian society to have had the 1st “woman” doctor in the British Army!!! (from">http://famouscanadianwomen.com/famous%20firsts/medical%20professionals.htm>

There was a detailed article on Barry, I think in the Beaver?. If I remember correctly, S(He) was wounded and needed treatment which would have exposed her gender.

I have always thought, just as Juanita and Harry Smith's lives lent themselves to fiction, that Barry's story had possibilities.

[Anne Gracie]

Hi Mary Jane --I do indeed know Dr Barrys story. In fact, one of the small literacy-for-adults books I help publish with my former workplace has a book all about Dr Barry -- the woman who lived as a man most of her life. Its here http://pageturners.prace.vic.edu.au/book-6-4-doctor-secret.php

[Ariel Atwell]

I've been having great fun playing with this concept in a novella I am writing called The Mysterious Mr. Heath. In this case the heroine was made to live like a male her entire life by her courtesan mother in order to please her father who had no sons. The conflict comes when she meets the hero, who wants is woman to be...well...a woman. I wrote the novella to help promote my main book, but readers seem to really be enjoying. Love to get this group's thoughts.