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The Wenches


  • Mary Jo Putney

  • Patricia Rice

  • Susan Fraser King

  • Anne Gracie

  • Nicola Cornick

  • Andrea Penrose

  • Christina Courtenay

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  • Jo Beverley
    Word Wench 2006-2016

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    Word Wench 2006-2009

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Comments

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Susan Scott

Nicola, I have always loved Prince Rupert, too. His life had so many twists and turns (the Civil War AND governor of Hudson's Bay AND that little stint in the Caribbean when he may or may not have been a pirate AND, finally, winding up as an artist and inventor at Windsor Castle) that I'd thought there should be dozens of novels about him.
At least now he has a most excellent WordWenches blog. *g*

Linda Banche

If I had my picture painted with an animal, it would be a duck. I love ducks.

I'm thinking of using a North American Wood Duck as an avatar.

Here's a picture of a wood duck pair:
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/waterfowl/images/wood_duck_pair.jpg

Unfortunately, the prettier one is the male (most male birds are prettier than the female birds), so I'd have to use the duller, but still prettier than most female ducks, hen. Sigh.

NinaP

Wonderful bit of history, Nicola. Thanks!

The portrait of Kitty (especially the way her fingers curl at her breast) puts me in mind of a shrewd woman out to "acquire" for herself all the rarest riches life has to offer.

To dogs… I love them! If I were to have my portrait painted, it would be with my two 70 pound German Shepherds. Drake and Voltan, a.k.a. "the boys," are my constant shadows. Right now, they are laying at my feet along with Karson, an adorable 10# Black lab puppy we are raising for the Seeing Eye.

Nina, looking forward to a day with the ms where her Waterloo hero lives with his two French hounds.

Laura Vivanco

Nicola, I was trying to work out which Colonel on either side of Rupert was which, so I Googled, and in the National Trust's photo library that painting is described as being of

"PRINCE RUPERT, PRINCE MAURICE & THE DUKE OF RICHMOND by William Dobson at Ashdown House." http://www.ntprints.com/pictures_1399905/ashdown-house.html

Have they got that wrong?

Nicola Cornick

Wasn't he a fascinating man, Susan? The children who come on the Ashdown tour love it when I say that Rupert and Maurice may have been pirates of the Caribbean! But for me the fact that he was a soldier AND a scholar swings it. I love a hero with brains as well as muscle.

Linda, I like your choice of a duck for your portrait. That would look different and unusual. The Wood Duck is exceedingly pretty. It's a great shame for birds that it's usually the male who is the more attractive.

Nicola Cornick

Nina, I think you are so right about Kitty! Isn't it an interesting picture?

I like the thought of a portrait of you flanked by "the boys"! Is the Seeing Eye like our Guide Dog organisation in the UK? We raised 4 puppies for them and our pet dog, Monty, was most unimpressed at having puppies hanging off his ears all the time. I hope Drake and Voltan are being kind!

Nicola Cornick

Okay, Laura, I'm going to sounds like a bit of an obsessive here, but I comfort myself that you did ask! On the portrait that hangs in Ashdown the names of Prince Rupert and Prince Maurice and the Duke of Richmond are painted onto the picture. However, a few years ago we discovered that a number of the Ashdown portraits including that one have the wrong names on them. We have no idea why but it would be fascinating to know when the names were added and by whom and why they were wrong. A little digging on my part found the original picture (the Ashdown version is an unfinished copy) and thus discovered the real identities of the other colonels. There is a book of an exhibition of Dobson's paintings that gives the background and provenance. Both Murray and Russell were fascinating men but I'll save them for another blog!

Mary Jo Putney

I love the idea of paying attention to the little furry faces in the corners of the pictures! I particularly like Kitty Fisher and the fishing cat. *g* I can't say that associating cats with lethargy is necessarily inaccurate, though.

I'd certainly have pets in portraits. Luckily, cats are small, so several could fit in at once.

Mary Jo

Susan/DC

The portrait of Kitty Fisher is lovely, and I like the fact that the cat seems so oblivious to the human next to him. I don't think the human Kitty would necessarily be considered a great beauty today (standards do change over time), but maybe she would -- I think artists subtly change their sitters' features to conform to then current ideas of beauty, so Kitty may not have looked exactly like that. Not to mention that beauty often comes from a face in motion or alight with intelligence and charm, and that is hard to portray in two dimensions.

As for Prince Rupert, I was first introduced to him in Diana Norman's "The Vizard Mask". I love that book; it's OOP but should be easy to find in a UBS or online. Prince Rupert is definitely one of the good guys in the book, which has one of my favorite opening lines ever: "Penitence Hurd and the plague arrived in London on the same day."

Nicola Cornick

I like the idea of a few cats dotted about in a portrait, Mary Jo!

Susan, The Vizard Mask is one of my favourite books and favourite first lines too. Diana Norman is on my auto-read list. And I thought that your comment about the standards of beauty changing was absolutely spot on. The Ashdown portrait collection contains a picture of Princess Elizabeth Palatine, the eldest daughter of Elizabeth of Bohemia. Apparently she was considered one of the greatest beauties of the age and was known as The Star of the North but to my mind she looks a bit vacuous and I think all her sisters are better looking! It's interesting that when I tell the visitors she was thought to be a great beauty I get very sharply divided opinions. One of the things I love about the Ashdown portrait collection, though, is that there's a really strong family resemblance running through the Stuarts with their melancholy dark looks. In part that may be stylised by the artists but it sure makes the men look good!

Patricia Rice

Okay, am I the only nudnik who wails at the idea of shooting that poor poodle because they thought it was a devil or witch? Shades of things to come! Really, killing in the name of religion just naturally has to stop--maybe we should shoot the shooters. "G"

Okay, so revisions are causing brain explosions today. I'll go back and sit quietly in my corner.

Laura Vivanco

"I'm going to sounds like a bit of an obsessive here, but I comfort myself that you did ask!"

Not obsessive, just interested in getting the details right! And yes, I did ask. Can I also ask what the red and black objects are that Rupert's holding? When I looked at the enlarged version (which is still quite small) the black thing looked a bit like a hat, but it also looked a bit as though he was pouring something into the red object, so I was left feeling a bit confused. I suppose if Rupert was known for his magic, it's possible he's practicing a conjuring trick, but somehow I very much doubt that's the real answer.

"a few years ago we discovered that a number of the Ashdown portraits including that one have the wrong names on them."

Shouldn't the details on the National Trust's website get changed, then? Do they know about this? It doesn't seem very fair to the Colonels for their bodies to be ascribed to other people.

"Both Murray and Russell were fascinating men but I'll save them for another blog!"

I'm looking forward to that!

Nicola Cornick

Oh Pat, I'm sorry! I share your feelings over Boy and indeed over killing in the name of religion. And sympathies over the revisions too.

Nicola Cornick

"Not obsessive, just interested in getting the details right!"

Thank you, Laura. Sometimes I feel like an Ashdown geek!

"Can I also ask what the red and black objects are that Rupert's holding? When I looked at the enlarged version (which is still quite small) the black thing looked a bit like a hat, but it also looked a bit as though he was pouring something into the red object, so I was left feeling a bit confused. I suppose if Rupert was known for his magic, it's possible he's practicing a conjuring trick, but somehow I very much doubt that's the real answer."

I can send you a big version of the picture if you would be interested, Laura. Rupert's left hand is unfinished in this version of the painting and it looks as though he is wearing a glove. In his right hand is a rolled up piece of parchment and it has been suggested that this is the commission he is apparently offering to Colonel Russell in his Regiment of Foot. Murray (in the centre) has a black hat in one hand and his other is at the base of what is supposed to be a glass of red wine but again this is unfinished so the wine is there but no glass! He is dipping the cockade of the hat into the wine, which was a gesture of homage to the Royalist cause.

"Shouldn't the details on the National Trust's website get changed, then? Do they know about this? It doesn't seem very fair to the Colonels for their bodies to be ascribed to other people."

I agree but unfortunately it takes a very long time for details such as this to be changed by the Trust!

Laura Vivanco

"I can send you a big version of the picture if you would be interested, Laura"

Oh, yes please. I'm on your mailing list, but I'm not sure how easily you'd find me on that as I'm sure it's a long list.

An email address is required to post a comment to this blog, so maybe you can get it that way, or is it only the webmistress who can see that bit of the blog?

I've got a contact form on my website: http://www.vivanco.me.uk/contact I'm not sure if you could send me a photo via that page, but if you email me, I can email you back and then you'd get my full email address. I'm trying to keep it off the internet to keep down the amount of spam I get.

"Rupert's left hand is unfinished in this version of the painting and it looks as though he is wearing a glove. In his right hand is a rolled up piece of parchment"

Oh, so Rupert is the one on the far left of the painting? For some reason I thought he must be the man in the middle. Well, Rupert is definitely the most handsome of the three (in my opinion), even if he's not in the centre of the painting. Do you think he looks a bit like Charles II?

"He is dipping the cockade of the hat into the wine, which was a gesture of homage to the Royalist cause."

Why? Was it supposed to recall communion wafers and wine? Or am I on completely the wrong track?

I think if I were visiting Ashdown House I'd be a very annoying visitor who'd pester you for lots and lots of details. ;-)

Patricia Barraclough

We have had a lot of pets. Actually, the one I am pictured with most is my snake. I take it to classes and to work. If I had a portrait done, I'd like my peacocks in the background and our oldest dog Olivia (a 13 year old lab mix) at my side. She is such a sweet heart and has gotten so gray. We have 3 more dogs and two cats, but that would be a bit much. The dogs especially adore my husband and they would all end up in a picture of him.

Nicola Cornick

Wow, Pat, you certainly have a menagerie! A snake in the picture? That's a great idea! Your Olivia sounds like our Monty. He's only eight but he looks very grey these days. We think maybe all those guide dog pups turned him white almost overnight!

Nicola Cornick

Laura, I like visitors who ask lots of questions. They are definitely the best sort!

Yes, Rupert is on the left, which is interesting as he is the focal point of the painting in the sense that it was probably painted to represent him as the saviour of the Royalist cause. And yes he is taller and better looking than the others!

Interesting about the cockade. I don't know the origin of that gesture but you have now inspired me to find out!

parlance

I've always thought of Rupert as a tragic figure and I was in love with him in my teenage years (and beyond). I think I got the idea of his life being a tragedy from reading a novel, maybe it was the one by Margaret Irwin.

Having read what you've said about him here (and reading people's comments) has reignited my interest in him.

curator

Parlance very kindly let me know about this wonderful post (and blog). I had only heard the barest outline about Prince Rupert's "devil dog," though I had always meant to learn more about both the hero and his dog. I personally think his affection for his animals must show the true quality of his valor -- was he merciful to those he'd conquered? (I see I have some reading to do.)
LOVE the Kitty Fisher portrait, by the way.

Nicola Cornick

Interesting that you saw Rupert as a tragic figure, Parlance. I'd like to read the Margaret Irwin book and see how he is portrayed. I will look out for that one.

Curator, I agree about Rupert's affection for animals showing his true quality. He had something of a reputation for brutality in war, however, though some of that was also parliamentarian propaganda. I think Charles Spencer's book abut Prince Rupert tackles that subject so I am going to read up on it. It was the Dobson painting that first awakened my interest in Rupert and his dog and I wrote one of my Masters essays about it.

I'm so pleased that you have both enjoyed the blog and really interested in everyone's comments. As a bit of an Ashdown/Craven/English Civil War geek it is lovely to share my obsessions! I was working at Ashdown today and a lady was commented on Rupert's good looks. There really is something about him!

margaret

For other Rupert fans (I count myself among that number) I recommend the historical fiction novel The Winter Prince by Cheryl Sawyer (now writing as Cheryl Hingley.) It was published in the US by Penguin, and features the romance between Rupert and the Mary Villiers, Duchess of Richmond, during the Civil War.

I second the recommendation of The Vizard Mask. I'm currently re-reading it for the ?th time!

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