Scandalous Preview

From Loretta:

In response to popular demand (two readers), today’s blog is about YOUR SCANDALOUS WAYS, my almost-somewhat finished Work in Progress.  As most of you are aware, we are required to deliver our manuscripts anywhere from six to twelve or more months before publication.  My book’s scheduled for June 2008.  Before that, there will be considerable back-and-forth with editors.  This means a great deal may change.  Even names.  So I’m going to hold off on excerpts for a couple of months.

YOUR SCANDALOUS WAYS is the second in my Fallen Women series, which started with NOT QUITE A LADY--which is also the fourth book in the Carsington brothers series.  I think each book should serve as many purposes as possible, considering how much time I spend writing them when I could be watching movies, say, or traveling around the world or shopping for clothes.

Though surnames might change, the hero and heroine’s first names are a pretty safe bet to stay.  Francesca, an English divorcée with very expensive taste in jewelry and appalling taste in husbands (thus the “divorcée”), has come to Venice, the Sin City of her day.  Her day is 1820.  We meet her in September and if all remains the same, the events of the tale will take a little over a week.

By the time of my story, Lord Byron, who lived in Venice from November 1816 to December 1819, has gone on to Ravenna and his affair with the Countess Guiccioli, after numerous other affairs and one-night or one-hour or fifteen-minute stands.  Lord Byron did a lot of smooching in Venice, but I am not sure he out-smooched Casanova.  I would have liked to mention the latter in YOUR SCANDALOUS WAYS, but his memoirs weren’t published until decades after the time of my story.  Byron is one of my sources--which at this moment far surpass the number of canals in Venice in 1863.

For those of you who, as I did, lack a clear picture of how strange and wonderful this place is, here it is, from the viewpoint of deities and satellites.

Venice lies in the middle of a swampy lagoon.  For centuries, it was accessible from the mainland--with difficulty and only by the experienced--only by water.  According to an 1863 Baedeker’s “The 15,000 houses and palaces of Venice are situated on three large and 114 small islands formed by 147 canals , connected by 378 bridges (most of them of stone) and altogether about 7 M (miles) in circumference.”  The number of houses and canals has changed over time.  Still, Byron would easily recognize the city today.  He might hesitate to swim in the canals, though.

Following a period of time living with a merchant and his wife (with whom the poet had a tempestuous affair, surprise, surprise) Byron moved into the Palazzo Mocenigo, which is on the Grand Canal, the big S-shaped waterway that divides the city.  My heroine Francesca lives on a rio, one of the many other canals.  Her house is the Palazzo Neroni, named in honor of a character in Trollope’s BARCHESTER TOWERS.

  Across the canal from her is the fictional Ca’ Munetti.  Ca’ is Venetian shorthand for casa, which is what all the palaces except the Ducal Palace were called before the fall of the Republic.  After 1797 and Napoleon’s arrival (and ransacking), though, the restriction on using the term palazzo was lifted.  This is why you will come across a building listed in one place as the Ca’ Rezzonico and in another as the Palazzo Rezzonico.  I stole the name “Munetti” from Byron’s friend Hobhouse's misspelling of somebody or other.  For those of you curious how authors come up with fictional names, this is one of my highly sophisticated methods.

Back to my tale.  In the great tradition of storytelling, A Stranger Comes to Town--and moves into the place across the canal.  The stranger is my hero, James, who is named after James Bond because he, too, is a government agent, albeit a very cranky one on account of (a) he’s been there done that with being Secret Agent Man and (b) he wants to be in England and (c) the other spies are too incompetent to figure out how to get a bunch of Highly Significant letters from a girl--Francesca--thus sticking him with a dumb job in Venice, wettest city in the universe, when he could be in London, second wettest (or is it third?), meeting nice girls for a change, instead of adventuresses, assassins, and Fallen Women.

James is half English, half Italian, all blueblood, and he’s Trouble, a Very Bad Boy.  Really.  He showed promising signs of a criminal career in his youth, before he was steered into legal criminality.  But Francesca is a Very Bad Girl.  It’s a match made, not in heaven, but in Venice, which in many people’s opinion is the next best thing.

Since I could go on endlessly about, say, the prisons on the eastern end of the Bridge of Sighs--or the challenges of getting the Italian words right and who I’m pestering for information--or what a gondola looked like in 1820--I’m going to do the sensible thing and leave it to you to tell me what you’d like to know.

Apart from excerpts (they’ll be coming), what else do you like to learn from an author about a book pre-publication?  Do you like bits of history to help set the stage?  Do you want more about the writing process:  picking names, doing research, dreaming up stuff?  More about characters?   Let me know, and I’ll try to accommodate you either today or in the coming months.

Comments

[Angela]

Wow! That sounds gorgeous. I adore Venice and the plot sounds a bit like Henry James' "The Aspern Papers"--a marvelous little novel in itself--so I am on this!

[Ingrid]

It sounds wonderful! Have you ever been to Venice, Loretta? Or do you imagine it all based on research?
My favourite historical subject is clothes. So what I'd like to know is: how do you dress your characters? Do you pore over contemporary fashion magazines (one of my favourite pastimes)?
I bet James and Francesca dress very sharp, and expensive too.
Some writers dress their heroines in little girl fantasy clothes, but yours are always based on the fashions of the time. You don't describe them as extensively as I would like, but I can see how that would hold the story up too much. But I can't help wondering: do you imagine entire wardrobes for your characters?

[Ingrid]

PS My second favourite subject is period jewellery. Some more information on how you chose Francesca's jewellery would be highly appreciated. By me, at any rate. As it happens I'm going to a lecture on 22 September on Empire jewellery, so slightly earlier than 1820. I'm very much looking forward to it.

[Francois]

Mmmmm, it's lovely to have properly mongrel English characters in a book. For a country defined by invasion, travel and fierce regionality, it is often oddly homogenous in books.

I wonder how you find out about the underbelly of society. Personal accounts are good (if prone to exaggeration!), but are there official sources for say the James Bonds of the 19th Century? If you believe historical novels then half the aristocracy were spies - but would conspicuous bluebloods have been the best people for the role?

[NinaP]

Hi Loretta!

So looking forward to this book! I love, Love, LOVE bad boys. (but only in books) *g* And Pierce is to die for. Even if you didn't name your hero James, I'm betting that's the face my mind's eye would have chosen for the hero.

Here's my question. It's born out of ignorance, I am sure, but... when I see pictures of Venice, all I can think about is mold. All that water (which I don't imagine was very clean)... there had to be mold. Was there? Is there?

Another question... how did they build buildings in the water? Or did they build them first then flood the canals? How did they repair the buildings? Did they have water in the basements?

Thanks for indulging me, Loretta. I am fascinated by what looks impossible (Sherrie, if you're reading this, I can hear you laughing) and I always want to know how it was done.

:-)
Nina

[Margaret]

Loretta asks "Do you like bits of history to help set the stage? Do you want more about the writing process: picking names, doing research, dreaming up stuff? More about characters?"

Margaret answers: Yes to all. Pretty please. I enjoy reading about an auathor's trials & tribulations in writing her book.

[Kathy Kremer]

Venice is not my idea of heaven. Admittedly, my one experience was limited. My problem with it was the SMELL. It was a very hot August (1969) and the place smelled like an open sewer. (Hard to enjoy one's meal sitting by the Grand Canal, with the competing scents.) Later I discovered that it is, actually, an open sewer. There is no system for sewage disposal other than flushing directly into the canals. When the tides change twice a day, the effluvia are washed out to sea. I can't think that the system would have been different in 1820, but perhaps they were not as prissy about odors then as we tend to be now.
My understanding about the city and its development is that people started living there in a sort of thieves' colony. Over time, when Venice became immensely rich by thievery on the high seas, the traders started building on the marshy ground. As time has gone on and more buildings are on the islands, the islands are sinking. I gather it's something like building on a wet sponge- the water is pressed out and the building sinks. Venice will be in real trouble if global warming raises the sea levels even a little.
I appreciate all the hard work and research you put into your stories. I'll be waiting to grab the new book as soon as it hits the shelves.

[marilyn tanaka]

I am looking forward to reading your new book-- it sounds like a lot of fun, to research, write, etc. What a great plot synopsis.

[Elaine McCarthy]

Oh, please, tell us How You Dream Stuff Up!! I would pay Big Money to learn to do it as well as you do. Since you offered to share the secret, I'm assuming you're not going to say it just pops into your head.

I always look forward to your next book, but after reading today's blog I'm more impatient than ever.

[LorettaChase]

Angie, as much as Henry James gives me a headache, I am tempted to read THE ASPERN PAPERS, which I hadn't heard of (yes, you guessed it--I'm not a big HJ fan) until I read Berendt's CITY OF THE FALLING ANGELS.
Francois, there are definitely official sources. I got my hands on a very rare book, SECRET SERVICE: British Agents in France 1792-1815. Members of the upper classes were people who could move in the circles where they’d get information, act as couriers, etc. The spies and couriers were often but not always part of the diplomatic corps. Some were officers. Sir Sidney Smith was imprisoned for spy activity. Apparently, there was a real person behind the fictional Scarlet Pimpernel, for instance.
Ingrid--the jewelry question first because it’s easier. I have a beautiful book, JEWELLERY: The International Era 1789-1861, from which I stole Francesca’s fabulous stuff.

Clothes: I avoid getting into detail about clothes unless they are pertinent to the scene, which usually means you get a bit of detail if someone’s dressing or undressing. I find the 1820s difficult in this regard. Not nearly as many pictures as one finds for the late Georgian and the Official/Legal Regency period (1811-1820). But I adapt earlier fashions in accord with whatever trends I’ve learned about. However, sometimes in a scene, all one really needs to know is the color of the gown or what it’s made of or how low cut it is. For more--be sure to stop next month when Kalen Hughes talks about fashion.
Nina, the water was clean enough at times so that people did swim in it. Apparently, this was the case at some point in the 20th C. Byron did swim in it, often, sometimes naked and sometimes fully dressed. I have no idea about mold. But I know plenty of people who live by the ocean on inlets who have no mold problems, while some of us who live inland, do.

Ah the buildings. They were built in the water. They drove pinewood piles 25 feet down--through the muck at the bottom into compressed clay. The buildings sit, basically, on these closely-packed piles. These wooden poles don’t rot because there’s no oxygen. This is an involved subject which deserves a whole blog. There’s a DVD, ANCIENT MYSTERIES: THE MIRACULOUS CANALS OF VENICE that explains very well, with pictures! Christopher Hibbert’s VENICE: THE BIOGRAPHY OF A CITY explains the when, whys, and wherefores.
Margaret, you’ve got it. I’ll follow up in later blogs with this info.
Kathy, I think smell depends on the time of year. Those who visit in the fall don’t mention smell. Some who’ve visited in the summer do. I know the well-off Venetians went to the mainland during the summer to get away from the steamy heat and malaria and, very likely, the smell. London had a similar summertime problem with smell, and all its effluvia went into the Thames. I haven't come across anything indicating Venice was a thieves’ colony. It was when the barbarians were sacking Rome and overrunning the mainland that people fled to these little islands in the swamp. They were fishermen, used to navigating the swampy lagoon. Apparently, the foreigners didn’t care to risk chasing them--or saw no profit in it. The sinking has been ascribed to a number of factors, but it’s been going on since the time the city was built. But the high tide back in the sixties did terrible damage, definitely, and pollution is hastening the destruction of buildings that have stood for more than 400 years. There’s evidence that St. Mark’s Square has been built up several times--it’s the lowest point in Venice & susceptible to flooding. Global warming, however, may prove catastrophic.

[Bonnie]

I like blogs like this and exerpts to whet my appetite for a new book. The blogs give me insight into an author's processes as she writes and an excerpt allows me to get the flavor of her writing.

[Maureen]

I am looking forward to your newest book and I would enjoy more about the characters and what is happening historically at the time your story is set.

[Jane O]

Oh thank you - lovely blog. I find history irresistible and greatly appreciate any book suggestions.
And I love Venice. I always remember my children's arrival in Venice. They were 11 and 13 at the time, and spent the entire vaporetta ride with their mouths hanging open, giving occasional sighs of wonder and pleasure. I suspect I will react to your book the same way.

[Kalen Hughes]

I can't wait to talk about clothes. I've chosen the year 1811, but I'll be happy to answer questions about other years/eras too! The 1820s are interesting simply because the silhouette changes so drastically (waist drops, skirts bell out, sleeves get puffy) from that of the earlier Empire silhouette (which I find much more attractive). And men’s fashions start to change too, the whole nipped-in waist thing starts, as well as the padded hips and shoulders (the man’s silhouette becomes very feminine).

ANCIENT MYSTERIES: THE MIRACULOUS CANALS OF VENICE is amazing. I caught this on tv a few months back and was just amazed at how it was all done. I highly recommend it if you can find it and really want to know. I love all those shows on the History Chanel and the National Geographic Chanel (I’m addicted to Simon Schama’s The Power of Art; the Bernini episode makes me drool).

I can’t tell you how much I’m looking forward to this book!!! I’ve been toying with the idea of setting a book in Venice myself, and I’m sure Loretta’s will be inspirational (though what it might inspire is for me to stay the hell away from the setting lest I suffer by comparison!).

[Ingrid]

Thanks for explaining about the jewellery and the clothes. I'll look forward to reading about Francesca's fabulous jewellery.
If you have a library with a collection of early fashion magazines within reach, you should treat yourself and go through them. I only live half an hour by train from the Dutch royal library. It has a set of the Journal des Dames et des Modes from 1810 to 1827 and I have spent some happy afternoons there just looking at the plates and teading bits of fashion news.
The ground in Holland is very soft and all buildings are built on piles. In this day and age the piles are made of cement and it makes an awful noise when they're driven into the ground. At the first blow the pile goes down metres; the last few centimetres take many blows. That's when the pile reaches the hard layer it will rest on.
A lot of owners of old buildings have trouble with rotting wooden piles. It is said they rot because the level of the groundwater has been allowed to drop of late years. A problem they won't have in Venice, I suppose.

[NinaP]

Loretta,

Thanks for the explanation about the buildings. Ya know, a blog like this gets my attention a whole lot faster than a book trailer.

:-)
Nina

[Maggie Robinson]

I can't wait until June 2008! Visiting Venice is on my to-do list, but if I never get there, at least I will have read your book.

[LorettaChase]

Marilyn, it was GREAT fun. Still is--as I am still tying up loose ends.
OK, Elaine. I'll get that into a future blog along with Margaret's questions.
Thanks, Bonnie. Excerpts will be coming in a couple of months.
Maureen, thank you. Characters, especially in the context of historical events, is a subject I'll have a lot of fun with, so I'm putting that on the blog list.
Jane O, I'll be dropping book names over the coming months. I love researching a book, but this was particularly enjoyable, and I'm happy to share my discoveries. I can only hope that my book will at least give a hint of the wonders of this special place.

[Michelle Butler]

Honestly, what I would want to know about your upcoming book is: How can I get my hands on it sooner than the release date? or even more far-fetched - How could I "help you" write faster so that I could read more of your books per year?

The new book sounds amazing, and I can't wait to read it.

I celebrated my 30th b-day in Venice, and I think the city is magical. It's like no where else I've ever been, and I have a hard time finding the words to express how amazing it is.

I was there in early June, and there were no "smell" problems. The only problem with it, in my mind, is it is exhorbitantly expensive. I live in D.C., I was there with my NYC based sister, and we had just been in Rome and Florence. The Venetian prices blew us away.

But, it is amazing.

[LorettaChase]

Kalen, I agree that the earlier styles were more attractive. I like the 1820s because they start getting a little nutty and overdone but they're not as depressing and anti-sexual as those wide skirts of the early Victorian era, and I can have fun with that overdone stuff as a writer. I had a great time with the 1829 styles in LORD OF SCOUNDRELS. I am so looking forward to your guest blog! As to setting books in Venice, there are so many possibilities, so many directions to take. To me, it's like England: You find a niche for a story and explore it. BTW, another Wench has a Venice story coming up.
Ingrid, thank you for the suggestion regarding fashion. I'll bet there's a library nearby that has the material. I wasn't aware the buildings in Holland were built on piles, too. It's fascinating, isn't it, how people find a way to overcome the problems of their terrain. And you're right: Venice seems to have the opposite problem: rising water levels.
Nina, thank you! I have to say, book trailers are not working for me at all.
Maggie, it's on my to-do list, as well. Maybe we'll meet up. *g*

[Kalen Hughes]

Ok, I'm not sure this link will work, but here goes. The Bild Index (www.bildindex.dec)in Germany has a wonderful collection of Regency-era fashion plates. Click on the one you want to see, then click on the fourth bar from the left to see it larger (it says something like "vergorsein").

http://www.bildindex.de/rx/apsisa.dll/init?sid={d3ab9665-9b4b-490b-8216-366090a394c6}&cnt=95830&%3Asysprotocol=http%3A&%3Asysbrowser=ie6&%3Alang=de&

[Kalen Hughes]

Ok, it didn't work. Dang. If you follow the link, click on the British flag to get the site in English. Click on "Expert Search" at the top. run the serach as 1800-1830 and use the word "rock" (dress) as the overall search word. When the results come up, hit "gallery" to see them.

[LorettaChase]

That took some doing, Kalen, but it's excellent. Thank you!

[Kalen Hughes]

At least the site is now in English. I've been using it for years in German, and I do not speak German, LOL! There's some amazing stuff on there though.

[Helen]

I really respect your books because your characters are so interesting and you let us know what they are thinking and why. Also I love your dialogue. It always seems so absurd when the couple spend all their time embracing, but never seem to converse. I like to know why this pair belong together and physical attraction by itself is not enough of an reason. How do you do it?

[Beth]

Well, this answered all my questions! I especially like that Loretta's characters don't seem to be the same essential couple reincarnated in different bodies and settings. They're all quite unique. Even Bathsheba and Leila were distinct despite their passion for painting.

[Angela]

Lol Loretta, HJ is very tedious--which is why I watch the movies first to entertain my brain with visual images when I read the book. *G*

[JMM]

Question;

Is the heroine really a Bad Girl, or just another "I'm so misunderstood, I was forced into it to save my Daddy, (I'm really a virgin/I only had sex once/I never enjoyed it) all I want is to have a hubby and a brood of children and live in the country" heroine?

Sorry to be so cynical, but 99 out of 100 times when the author promises to give reader a tiger for a heroine, we get a kitten.

[Maya]

be still my heart. another half-italian hero, like Dain??? i can't wait.

and icing on the cake: in venice, of all places, one of the most enchanting cities ever. i've had the good fortune to visit three times, but never managed a gondola (outrageously expensive, and those in them are automatically if unfairly marked as rich american or japanese tourists and become at risk of being followed by pickpockets etc.) the water taxis and waterbuses are pretty cool, though

[LorettaChase]

Helen, thank you. I tend to emphasize dialogue because that's where my writing strength is, and I'm not sure how that developed. Maybe dialogue was what I focused on in reading and in watching movies, and so that was the lesson I learned better than others. Perhaps, in the same way, in studying Great Writers, I paid attention to the way they used dialogue to express character. The big challenge in developing a new story for me is in getting a good sense of the H/H's psyches. I absolutely cannot get anywhere until I have an idea of who they are and what makes them tick. I won't know every detail when I start, but as the story progresses, they do become very clear to me, their voices and thoughts quite distinct.

[LorettaChase]

Beth, trying to create "new" characters for each book is definitely a challenge!
Excellent suggestion, Angela!
LOL, JMM. No, Francesca has discovered the freedom of being a fallen woman on the Continent, where standards are quite different than those in England. Back story is the ghastly divorce from the appalling husband, and she doesn't get any alimony, so yes, she takes one of the few routes open to a lady to support herself. But but like my other heroines, she's no victim--and she's not a little innocent kitten by any stretch of the imagination. How about this? "It was nothing, merely a man lounging in a boat, merely a man at her feet--where she preferred them, by the way..."

[LorettaChase]

Oh, Maya, I am so loving my half-Italian hero. In this case, because he doesn't have Dain's parental issues (James is one of the younger sons of a very happy second marriage), a lot more of the cultural mix comes through. Sometimes he thinks/acts like an Englishman and other times the Italian side is running the show.

[AgTigress]

I have only visited Venice once (had to - it was getting embarrassing, being the only person I knew who hadn't ever been there!), and it fully lived up to my expectations. I would guess that evil-smelling water is just an occasional problem when particular conditions obtain. I did not notice it being smelly last year, anyway.

Cities on water seem to have a special magic; Amsterdam and Sydney also spring to mind.

I shall look forward keenly to Loretta's new book. :-)

[Anna]

I already love this book :-) and this half-italian mascalzone.
What a wonderful preview Loretta!
I can't wait to get my hands on it. You're a very talented writer, and after reading about your historical researches I can't help admiring you more and more.
Anna

[LorettaChase]

AgTigress, having started the Donna Leon books, I'm wondering if the smell has more to do with pollution from the mainland than from the water. Given the diversity of experiences, I wonder if it simply depends on which way the wind blows?
Hello, Anna! What a wonderful word, "mascalzone." Everyone, Anna's the talented lady who brought me to her bilingual blog http://romancebooks.splinder.com and is helping me not make a fool of myself with Italian. Check it out--a lovely group there.

[Jo Beverley]

It's a long time since I visited Venice -- 1976, I think -- but yes, wonderful. We were there in March, I think, so it wasn't smelly, but it was chilly, especially in the marble halls. I could see why everyone in the portraits seemed swathed in furs!

This book'll be a treat, Loretta.

Anna, I seem to have lost your e-mail address. Could you e-mail me, [email protected]. I, too, need a bit of help with Italian.

Thanks,

Jo

[AgTigress]

Loretta: I do hope you are enjoying Donna Leon's great series. :-)

On the language question, it was only through reading her books that I actually caught on to the fascinating language complexities, since she often mentions that somebody is speaking Italian rather than Venetian, or vice versa. I had thought that the Italian of the Veneto was simply one of the many regional dialects of Italian, but the differences apparently go a lot deeper than that. Venetan is in many ways closer to Spanish than to modern standard Italian; it is referred to as a *language* rather than a dialect, and was formally and legally recognised as such only this year (March 28, 2007).

As my own Italian doesn't go much further than understanding a menu, the subtleties are wholly lost on me, but Leon's remarks took me to the Wikipedia article on 'Venetian Language', which turns out to be long (11 pages), detailed and to all appearances pretty scholarly.

A sample sentence in the Wiki article is 'Marco is arriving' in (1) standard Italian, (2) 'Venetian Italian' (standard with the infuence of Venetan) and (3) in pure Venetan; they are, respectively:

(1) Marco sta arrivando
(2) Marco el sta rivando
(3) Marco el xe drio rivar

I propose we all raise a glass of Prosecco (or several) to Loretta when the new book is completed - and again when it is published!

:-D

[Anna]

In Verona you would say:

Marco l'è drio rivar.

Towns dialects are slightly different even if in the same region.
In Veneto, Veronese is different from both Vicentino and Veneziano.
It's not so much difficult to understand, the nearer you are geographically the easier it's to understand people talking in dialect.
Changes in languages become deeper when you travel to other regions.

Anna

[Loretta Chase]

Jo, I've read that the Venetians did like their creature comforts, and had, along with the furs, plenty of thick rugs as well as fires in the fireplaces.
AgTigress, I'm enjoying Donna Leon's series very much. Since I started with the very first book (still in print, I'm happy to say), there are many to look forward to. Thank you for mentioning the Wikipedia article. I'm going to check it out. I understand on an abstract level about the complexities of the languages and the dialects, but I learn better from examples, and the ones you cited do make the differences clear. Anna has been helping me pin down the language various characters will be speaking. As she notes, even going from one town to another, there are differences. This is a situation that most of us in the U.S. would not be aware of, or expect. We have dialects, but our version of English is much more homogenized and getting more so all the time.

[Jane George]

The book sounds exciting. A story to really sink one's teeth into.

And wow on that (litho?) of the Countess G. if that's who it is. She's certainly portrayed as quite a morsel. What IS holding up that dress?

A neophyte question on dialect:
I went to great pains to accurately represent a Cornish accent in my WIP. A published judge said I'd nailed it, but to take it all out because editors won't go for it. And lo and behold, the final judge, a well-known editor, struck through it all saying accents slow the work down. In lots of books I've read recently, the only accent used is a shorthand quasi-Cockney for servants, no matter where in England the story takes place.
Is this becoming a convention in American publishing?

[AgTigress]

Anna and Loretta: the dialect/language thing is infinitely complex in most languages, and different *towns*, let alone regions, do indeed have their own pronunciations and idioms (for example, I can pick out Cardiff-inflected speech at a hundred yards - and it isn't the same as general South-Wales English, which is quite different from North-Wales English, or South-West-Counties-of-England, English!). I know a fair amount about British English and Welsh-language dialects, but my knowledge of Italian, standard or dialect, can be written on a postcard, so I was pretty excited to find out more about Venetan. The region of Italy I am most comfortable in is around Bolzano, because they speak German there, and I can communicate! :-D

Jane: Cornish dialect, and others. I do have some sympathy with the position of the editors. For one thing, in writing down *any* dialect phonetically, you have to decide which relationship of sound and spelling you are using, e.g. American (standard), British RP, Aussie etc. They are all different. If you write 'wot?' for 'what?', that's actually how MOST BE speakers pronounce it, not just various dialect-speakers: it is only a few of us old-fashioned RP speakers who aspirate the 'wh' and say 'hwot?'. And if an AE speaker says W-O-T out loud, the sound they make would be written in *BE* spelling as 'Waaht?' AE very rarely, if ever, uses our short 'o' (in the IPA, it is shown as a mirror-reversed cursive 'a', and it is very common in BE: we say 'dog', you say 'dahg', or 'dawg'. Jo will know what I mean). It's all a hiding to nothing.

I think the most practical solution for representing dialect is to use dialect *words*, *idioms* and *syntax* where appropriate, but to go with standard spelling as far as possible, or you'll drive yourself and the readers mad - and if the readers do not know the dialect, the attempt at phonetic transcription won't come off anyway. They won't actually 'hear' the right sounds.

Actually, if we didn't still use roughly the same spelling, but had tried in the different English-speaking nations to introduce more phonetically-based spelling systems, AE and BE might no longer be mutually comprehensible at all. Maybe about as close as Dutch and German, if that.

;-)

[RevMelinda]

I love accents and regional dialects. Besides the American English and British English differences, there are so many regional variations in the US.

As a kid I saw a video where the speaker asked a simple question: "Do 'dog' and 'hog' rhyme?" And the answer, of course, was--it depends on where you live! (In NYC, no; in Virginia, yes.)

One of my favorites is "draw" and "drawer." Where I grew up you "draw" (drah) a picture and put pencils in a "drawer" (drohr). In New England you "draw" (drohr) a picture and put pencils in a "drawer" (drah).

I grew up in the South where vowels are multi-poly-syllabic. SALE, for example, is "say-ull." Whereas here in Oregon, all the vowels are flattened--SALE is "sell." (It drives me nuts, actually: on the radio the other day I heard an ad for a dentist that said: "Do you have the smell you've always wanted?"--he was actually trying to say, "Do you have the SMILE you've always wanted?"--sigh) And in Texas, "tire" is "tar" and "oil" is "all."

Hope I've transcribed all that in an understandable way. AgTigress, what you've described about phonetic transcription is so true and so beautifully stated.

Could we have a Wench do a blog on dialects sometime so we can all add our two (three, ten) cents, favorites, pet peeves?

[AgTigress]

Then, RevMelinda, there is the Rhotic Question!! Most BE dialects, including RP, are non-rhotic; most American ones are rhotic. You pronounce the terminal 'r' in words like 'door'; we don't ('daw'). But the *way* you pronounce it doesn't sound like an 'r' to us at all, but like a vowel ('daw-uh')! It is a rich source of confusion for anyone who is not trained in phonetics, and it has taken me years to get the hang of it.

:-)

[RevMelinda]

There are also those 'r' sounds that pop up where they don't belong (on both sides of the Atlantic)--like "warsh" instead of "wash" in the US Midwest. (I'm blanking on a BE example, AgTigress--I'm sure you can think of one. . .maybe adding an "r" after an "a" like "Elizar Bennett"?)

Loretta, sorry we've strayed so far from Venice here! (LOL)

[LorettaChase]

Jane, I must thank AgTigress explaining much better than I could. What I can say is, the Avoid Dialect rule has been around for a long time, at least in romance. At most, we can get away with it only if it's used very, very sparingly. Thus the shorthand quasi-Cockney. (I have to wonder if Mark Twain would be able to get published today.) As AgTigress pointed out, what one can do, in dealing with regional forms of speech, is to use a region's distinctive terminology or phrasing rather than try to imitate speech sounds. I did a little bit of this in LORD OF SCOUNDRELS, to try to get a flavor of the Devon dialect. Funnily, because I'm from the NE U.S., I don't hear the sounds the same way RevMelinda does, and would transcribe them differently. I hear Virgina "smile" as "smaahhl"--with a long "ah" as when the doctor tells you to open your mouth and say "ah". It sounds like one and a half to two syllables long. My southern husband explained that you make the short words long and the long words short. *g* Needless to say, when I am in Virginia or Georgia, I say "pardon?" and "say again?" a lot, and suspect that my inlaws think I'm deaf.

[LorettaChase]

RevMelinda, stray away! Talking about how we talk is endlessly fun and fascinating. Here in Massachusetts, we are famous for dropping "r" all over the place, then sticking it in where it doesn't belong. Thus, "cah" for "car" and "pahk" for "park" but "Melinder" for "Melinda." I guess all those abandoned "r"s have to go somewhere.

[margaret]

I am very eager to read this book, and am trying to tamp down my impatience, not very succesfully.

Venice is simply magical. And so very strange--but in my opinion, it's a good sort of strange.

It's where I discovered that I really do like Tiepolo's art. And where I explored my own artistry as a photographer.

Good luck, Loretta, as you confront your deadline!

[Jane George]

Thanks for the input, Ladies! It's rather a relief to know I don't have to go the whole Pygmalion route! Terminology and syntax being easier to research, I'm more than happy to, "call the whole thing off." :-)

Loretta, if your book comes out in June 2008, does that mean you'll be at the Literacy Signing at RWA National in July? (hint/beg)

[AgTigress]

RevMelinda: the intrusive 'r' in British English only pops up between two vowels, so not in 'Eliza Bennett', but in 'Eliza (r) Atkins'. In very bad cases, it will appear within a word ('dror-ing' for 'drawing'). It is an absolute no-no for speakers of traditional, formal Received Pronunciation, but that dialect of BE is no longer highly regarded anyway.
;-)

[RevMelinda]

Loretta, when I was at "Hahvid" for grad school I shopped at the "Stah Mahkit," LOL! (If I were able to talk to you now, AND if I were quite drunk, I could do a little Kennedy patter for you).

And there are variations within variations in Virginia. For example, I can tell if someone's from Richmond or Charlottesville. My Seattle-ite husband finds it bizarre.

And AgTigress, thank you! That's exactly what I was thinking of and trying to remember. . .

[KatherineS]

I think I'd answer "yes" to all of Loretta's questions. More background history, more interesting detail on the writing process, and more on the characters would all be welcomed by me.

Re gondolas: I visited Venice last November, and was fascinated by the gondolas. I understand that they've always looked the same (even down to the iron piece, the ferro, on the prow), it's just that the pre-twentieth cetury ones had a cabin, rather than being open. I can't for the life of me remember what the cabin's called, though. You can see gondolas with cabins in the paintings of Canaletto. Or Ms. Chase, I have a photograph of a cabin-ed one in the Ca' Rezzonico: I'll try to e-mail it to your website's e-mail address.

[francois]

AgTigress says..."In very bad cases, it will appear within a word ('dror-ing' for 'drawing')"

Oh dear. I say it like that, despite working at the BBC. It must be my Kentish roots showing.

[LorettaChase]

Jane, I'm not sure about RWA yet.
AgTigress & francois, sometimes I say "dror-ing", though I know it sounds very different from the English version. This and other dialect curiosities depend on how well I'm suppressing my Central Massachusetts accent.

KatherineS, the cabin is called a felze. Most crucial elements remained the same but the shape of the gondola changed over the centuries from symetrical to asymetrical. Here's one article. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1310/is_1988_Nov/ai_7016824
However, there seems to be some confusion on this subject and not all sources agree, so I'll see if I can follow up on this subject in the coming months, perhaps as we get nearer to pub date. Meanwhile, I'll be delighted and grateful to see your photo. I know that several reproductions have been made but none of the photos I've found are quite satisfactory--so I have relied mainly on descriptions in books.

[LorettaChase]

Margaret, I'm dying of impatience to get to Venice, and wondering if by some miracle I can get there before my book comes out. I think "good sort of strange" is very apt, but I certainly would like to see for myself!

[AgTigress]

Francois - oops, I didn't mean to insult anyone's pronunciation! Like the glottal stop, the intrusive r between vowels is common in London and South-East England speech.

It is particularly in traditional, formal Received Pronunciation that these traits are considered bad. But as I indicated, RP is no longer much valued, since it is now widely regarded as 'elitist' or 'snobbish' - especially in the BBC! Fifty years ago, RP was so essential for anyone whose voice would be heard over the airwaves that people would work hard to get rid of their regional accents. Now regional accents (though not necessarily dialect idioms) are almost required.

:-)

[Sherrie Holmes]

RevMelinda, you must stop this. You've made me laugh out loud twice, now!

[Marian S]

No question; just a note about Venice,Berendt and HJ.

As noted, Berendt's book on Venice is wonderful; however, I got a better "feel" for Venice by reading Donna Leon's mystery series featuring a gentle Venetian detective, Guido Brunetti. Guido's wife, by the way, is passionate about HJ in all of his somewhat tedious personas.

I get a slightly different felling when reading your great stories about absolutely fabulous men; I think it is called lust!

[kotorisun]

I have just today finished Not Quite a Lady & am THRILLED to realise you have another coming out in June... So near, and yet, so far!

Uh... as I type this I'm experiencing anxiety at the thought of the wait. . .

I admit to gluttony & since the beginning of the Carsington brothers series I've been hoarding them, you know, trying to read each page as slooowwwly as possible to savour & make them last. Not Quite A Lady stretched to two days, by virtue of ONLY reading it on the train. That was until I got to work today and by midday damned the wet weather and settled in a corner with my book. Ahem. Your book.

Patricia Veryan, an author I adore who like you writes wonderful dialogue, has recently retired from writing due to poor eyesight I believe.

Surely my first reaction upon hearing that news ought to have been sympathy not devestation? (devestation on account of loss of future books from said author)

Which reminds me - don't spend too much time here if you could be writing!! !! !! Honestly, who wants to live their own life when they could loose themselves in a book?

Terry Pratchett mentioned something about his fans wanting him chained to a desk - well, it's not an outrageous request is it?

Okay I conceed that it is, in fact, quite rabid.

So. Seeing as you are actually reading these posts I wanted to take the chance to tell you, how much I adore your books. All of them. All. It's impossible to play favorites when they're individually so superlative. I've been a fan for years, and to have new books come out, and in such healthy doses, wow!! YAY!! Part of what makes it so exciting is that as an author you are becoming more widely known & they are re-releasing your old books (again, YAY!!!)

As another post-er noted, the way you individualise people...

I read heaps of romances - usually around 7-10 a week - and although there are some great authors, when do you read so many there are inevitable periods of desperation - I've been on a strict book diet since pre-Christmas but as soon as I FINALLY received NQaL I knew it would have to end.

As your characters are so personable - THAT is what I would LOVE to read more about! But I'm going to be hanging out to read any morsels in relation anyway!

With all awe and reverence,
Kot