Are you in with the in crowd?

By Mary Jo

No, I’m not talking about social trendiness, a topic in which I have zero interest.  I’m interested in Introverts and Extroverts. 

I’ll mention here that I am no psychologist, merely a reader of pop psych articles.  But the I/E split intrigues me because it's a useful frame for dealing with life, and it represents a prime aspect of personality.  And always has, the past as much as the present. 

I’m going to make lots of sweeping generalizations.  You are warned. <G> 

For starters,  who are these “I” and “E” people?  As Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion ) says, “ Extraverts (sometimes called "extroverts") are gregarious, assertive, and generally seek out excitement. Introverts, in contrast, are reserved, thoughtful, and self-reliant. They are not necessarily asocial, but they tend to have smaller circles of friends, and are less likely to thrive on making new social contacts.”  Carl Jung more or less came up with the idea, but it’s such a useful concept that it is now slung around pretty casually.

My sister, who as it happens IS a psychologist, once explained the concept to me more simply:  extroverts are energized by being with people, and introverts are drained.  Extroverts outnumber introverts about three to one, and they tend to get better publicity.  Contrast “life of the party” with “disaffected loner.” 

Even Shakespeare picked on us.  Think Julius Caesar: "Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.”  Clearly Cassius was an introvert. <G>

Many of you have probably taken a Myers-Briggs test, or equivalent, which judges four personality traits: Extroversion/Introversion; Sensing/Intuition: Thinking/Feeling: Judging/Perceiving.  The test results in a four letter score like INFJ or ESTP. 

The Myers-Briggs is often given to young people as part of vocational testing to establish what their preferences are.  For example, someone who likes peace and quiet probably wouldn’t want to work on a stock exchange trading floor.  A person who likes to be right in the middle of the action will die of boredom as a night watchman at a quiet suburban mall.

If you haven’t ever taken the Myers-Briggs, or have and would like to do it again, here are three internet sites that offer free M-B type tests with 50 or so multiple choice questions.  I like the top one best because it offers a five point scale rather than a simple either/or. 

http://www.kisa.ca/personality/

http://similarminds.com/jung.html

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

If you don’t like the results at one site, try another. <g>  All of these traits exist along a spectrum, and if you’re toward the center of the scale, you could shift from one mode to the other with slightly different questions or a different mood.  Overall, though, the results should be similar.

My first experience with this kind of testing was the Keirsey temperament sorter in the book Please Understand Me. ( http://tinyurl.com/2om3hq ) I rated as an INFJ, subtitled—“The Author.”  <g>  This was well before I started writing.  My SO, aka “Mr. Extrovert,” tested out as ENTJ: The Field Marshal.  He loved that. <g>  Here’s the Keirsey website, which has lot of good info on the personality types:

http://www.keirsey.com/keirsey.html

As an example of how this works in practice, Mr. Extrovert threw a big party in August to which he invited basically everyone he ever met, and I’d say about half of them came.  By the time it ended, he was lit up like a Roman candle while I felt like roadkill.  I do not even want to THINK about another large party for at least a year.  Preferably five. 

Speaking of which, when did “party” go from being a noun to a verb?  That usage has to have been invented by an extrovert.  <g>

Of course, how much an introvert is drained depends a lot on who the people around are.  The vast majority of writers are introverts from what I’ve observed, but turn us loose at a writing conference where we’re surrounded by our own kind, and we can get crazily interactive.  (When I gave the keynote at an RWA national conference a few years back, the one thing I said which everyone remembered was that it was “a  group of 2000 introverts pretending to be extroverts.”)

Many conference attendees periodically withdraw to their rooms to recharge, or leave the hotels for a long, quiet walk.  Some of us get into an over-stimulated, buzzy state, strung out and exhausted but not wanting to miss anything or anyone.  Almost all of us go home at the end of the conference feeling deeply depleted and ready to sleep for three days.  But while there, we can give a pretty fine imitation of extroversion. 

I’ve had people say, “Isn’t it hard to work at home alone all the time?” to which I reply, “No, it’s WONDERFUL.”  I love great billows of time where it’s just me and the cats (and the e-mail and maybe a few phone calls.)  Because my work life gives me lots of time for peace and recharging, I actually score more toward the middle of the I/E scale than I used to, because my “I” needs are so well met. 

Contrarily, an extrovert with a demanding, people-filled day job, may score more toward the “I” end of the scale because her extrovert needs are being so well filled that the need for quiet time becomes more pronounced.  Even the most effusive E needs some peace now and then, and even the most solitude-craving “I” tends to want to interact with people now and then. 

Not that all writers are “Is.”  I know at least one proven E who has produced over a hundred books and is still going strong.  For years she worked with a collaborator.  Eventually they went their separate ways, but then her husband retired and is happy to do web and business related work for her, so there’s always company nearby.

Other “E” writers compensate by becoming active in writing groups, I suspect.  Or if they have an active family life, that may take care of their extrovert needs very nicely. 

Most experienced writers learn to deal with the public fairly competently, but it’s usually a lot of work and time-limited.  For example, I can be gracious and friendly in a book signing for maybe two hours.  After that, all bets are off. <G>

Another good bit from my sister:  She says that if you invite an extrovert to join you for a movie, they’ll ask, “Who’s coming?”  An introvert will ask, “What’s playing?” :)   

In my own observation, when receiving party invitations, the “E” will say, “Great!  When and where?”  The “I” will say “Do I have to go?” unless she knows and likes a good number of the people who will be there. 

I suspect that many of the regulars here at Word Wenches are introverts since you’re book people.  I think one reason books have value to so many women is because in a stressful, over-full life, a woman can find mental privacy in the middle of a family food fight if she’s reading a good book.  (This may be why women have always been greater readers than men.) 

I went to my Oxford Dictionary of Quotations and found lots of quotes on solitude and tranquility, but none on partying.  Clear proof that it’s the introverts who are the writers, so naturally they’re the ones producing the quotes.  <g>   Like this one from Shelley’s “Song to the Men of England”:

I love tranquil solitude,
And such society
As is quiet, wise, and good.

Sounds lovely, doesn’t it?  So which are you, and introvert of an extrovert?  Have you shifted with time and circumstances?  Please share any appalling experiences you have with the opposite polarity!

Introvertedly yours,

Mary Jo, who avoids crowd scenes like the one on the left

Comments

[Jill]

I thought it was funny that this popped up this morning. I have been mulling over my own Myers-Briggs category a lot lately. INFP, if anyone is keeping score.
So, I am an introvert who works in a very big busy office and I have to interact with everybody (I am a secretary). If I don't have alone time at lunch, I feel like my face is about to slide off. I also can never get any work done. All the noise and chatter interrupting "my private flow."
I was starting to feel like I was stupid or incompetent, but I have never had this kind of problem at any other job. I had been interested in M-B stuff for years, but I just started looking back into it recently. Now I have made my peace that this job and I are just a bad fit.
Thankfully today is my last day. Then I have 4 weeks to prepare for a big move (and look for a new job)! Delicious hours of alone time stretch ahead of me and I can't wait. And hopefully the time to find a job that suits me better!
Sorry this was so long, but personality tests are a fascinating subject for me.

[Gretchen F]

I'm another square introvert in a round job- I teach K-8 art. I spend all day interacting with highly energetic kids- by the end of the day I am so tired all I want to do is go home and crawl in bed with a book. Fortunately it is just me and the cats at my house, so if I don't speak from the time I get home until the time I go back to work, nobody cares. However, I do tend to go through books at an alarming rate. Wenches, get busy! I'm on my third re-read of all of you !!

[kay]

I am an introvert and have taken "Briggs" a number of times. At my previous place of employment I was sent to a class once that according to my supervisor was going to help my own supervisory skills. The class lasted one week, on the first day when I arrived I noticed that all of the other attendees were standing off by themselves in corners and it dawned on me that all of the people in this class were there because they were all shy introverts. It also became very apparent to me once the class was under way that the company wanted all of us to change and become more aggressive/assertive. The words that flashed through my brain at this discovery were "sc**w you", I am who I am and I'm not going to change and besides that if you can't appreciate my many introvert skills, one of them being a keen observer, then I'm out of here. I have since found a job that I love with other people, who are basically just like me...at a library. Best place ever for introverts. My point is, it seems to me that our culture is not as accepting of a person who is introverted, that being introverted is looked upon as something that has to be overcome, and I totally disagree. Want to do a "Million Person Introvert Walk?"

[Elizabeth K. Mahon]

I'm definitely an introvert who can play the extrovert when needed. Not to get all astrological, but I have Libra Rising, which is a very social sign. So I can come across as an extrovert when I'm really not. which helps as the President of our local chapter RWA NYC. I totally understand what you mean by being drained after spending hours or days pretending to be an extrovert, I feel completely drained and in need of a hot bath, but I have friends who thrive on being around people and their energy whereas I often feel bombarded by people's emotions.

[Edith]

What to do? I'm an introvert who loves parties! I need my time alone and then I'm ready to ramble. But then I need to be Garboesque (note to the youn 'uns. Garbo was famous for her "I vant to be alone" quote.)
Thing is, I don't like too much alone, or too much out.
Oh. Wait a minute. I'm a Gemini.
nevermind.

[Elaine McCarthy]

I always figured I was an introvert when I was a kid, because I was shy and liked to read (possibly a connection there!). But the thing is, I really WANTED to hang with the gang and get up to no good in an innocent 50's kind of a way, I just lacked the confidence. So was I really an introvert, or was I just an unsuccessful extrovert?

I still need my alone time, but I'm a more succesful extrovert these days. I had a good time at the huge party I attended in August, but was one of the first to leave!

Maybe it's to do with how good one is at multi-tasking. I'm not good at it at all, so I have to have solitude to read or even to really think. I know a guy who can do data entry and talk on the phone at the same time and the person on the other end of the line never has a clue that she doesn't have his complete attention. He's very extroverted; spends almost ALL his time in the company of others, acting, doing improv comedy, going out dancing.

It's an interesting subject, particularly when it comes to, e.g., characters in romance novels. I'm trying to think of examples of very introverted heroes or heroines; not coming up with much. It might be difficult to get an introverted protagonist out of the house to meet that thrilling Other! It's kind of funny, now that I think about it... all these introverted writers creating such a bunch of extroverted characters. Perhaps inside every introvert there is an extrovert trying to get out?

[Kalen Hughes]

I think it comes as no surprise that I'm an E (a big, flashing, neon E). Or that I'm an N (iNtuition) and a T (Thinker). The last letter varies depending on which version of the test I take and how the questions are worded (and I tend to ride the line close to a 50/50 split). Sometimes I'm a J and sometimes I'm a P.

I can certainly see bits of myself in both the Inventor and the Field Marshal, but I think I’m really a Field Marshal. That's the one I've gotten consistently since high school.

[claudia dain]

This is one of my favorite topics; I just had to chime in.

I'm most definitely an introvert. I'm sure no one here will dispute that, but in my life as a wife and mother and woman around town, no one can believe it. They say, "But you're not shy!" That's right. I'm not shy. I'm an introvert!

My DH, the quiet one, is a pure extrovert. I'm talkative and outgoing, but I'm an introvert.

[NinaP]

ENTJ -- that's me! The “Rule The World” personality. Better to have conquered and lost than to have never tried at all -- so says I. (and Napoleon and Hitler and... well, thank goodness there's only a few of us :-) )

Anyway, I love writing because I get to be with people all day -- the people in my head that is. After a day of feverish conversing (and me typing) I'm spent and ready for a quiet corner. Which also makes me an introvert because my energy is renewed by being alone.

In truth, while I always test as an ENTJ, on the MBTI sliding scale, I'm in the E/I middle. A difficult place to be. If you met me at work (where I teach Organization Development and Workplace Ethics) you would see a gregarious person (who may be out to rule the world :-)). But, if you saw me at home, you would find me looking at that party invitation saying "Do I really have to go?"

After years of living the E/I double life, I've come to the non-professional conclusion that it's really all about control. That would be me being in control. When I'm controlling the large group of which I am a part (speaking to a cast of thousands or leading a team of just as many) I am in my glory. Put me at a cocktail party and I tuck tail and run.

[Kalen Hughes]

I'm "one the fence" for nearly all the parts of the test. I think most of us probaly are. Honestly, large parts of the ISFP sound a lot like me too (the impulsive run off to parts unknown in the middle of the night parts; the competative "lucky" follow my guts part).

I'm all over the place. LOL!

[Susan Wilbanks]

INTJ here, though closer to the middle on E/I than on any of the other traits. It fits--we're a lot like you ENTJ Field Marshals, only instead of assuming authority, we're the skeptical, independent sorts who resent authority on principle!

I'm married to an INTP, so we have wonderful analytical, theoretical discussions on just about everything, but you'd be amazed how many of our arguments come down to the P-J difference. Basically, I say, "Can't you make up your MIND?" and he says, "Can't you give me time to THINK?"

I'm more extroverted around writers than around any other group. I have an easier time flying across the country to attend a writers conference filled with people I've never met than with going to one of the get-togethers our daughter's daycare sometimes throws for families. Writers, after all, are easy to talk to. All you have to do is ask, "What do you write?" and 90% of the time they're off to the races. Then you just smile, nod, comment appropriately, and hope they ask you the same question so YOU can have a turn to babble enthusiastically.

[Bonnie]

I am a strong introvert. Large gatherings exhaust me even if they are full of people that I enjoy. After one of these I must have quiet time alone.

After retiring from 33 year of teaching middle schoolers all of my stress related ailments have evaporated. I relish my solitude to refill my well and do the things that I love like reading and writing.

[Bonnie]

I am a strong introvert. Large gatherings exhaust me even if they are full of people that I enjoy. After one of these I must have quiet time alone.

After retiring from 33 years of teaching middle schoolers all of my stress related ailments have evaporated. I relish my solitude to refill my well and do the things that I love like reading and writing.

[Jill]

Introvert here as well! I find the energy definition to be more useful than the wikipedia one - as many of us have said, at certain times in certain situations, we can all be gregarious, enthusiastic, etc. I make myself accept most invitations that I receive, because once I'm out, I enjoy company for a few hours, but I definitely need at least a few evenings alone to recharge (and at least one full weekend a month!). I could very easily become a hermit though, and would enjoy every second - my dream is to find a job someday that lets me work at home most of the time, but not so much that I'm cut off from the world.

[Jill]

Introvert here as well! I find the energy definition to be more useful than the wikipedia one - as many of us have said, at certain times in certain situations, we can all be gregarious, enthusiastic, etc. I make myself accept most invitations that I receive, because once I'm out, I enjoy company for a few hours, but I definitely need at least a few evenings alone to recharge (and at least one full weekend a month!). I could very easily become a hermit though, and would enjoy every second - my dream is to find a job someday that lets me work at home most of the time, but not so much that I'm cut off from the world.

[Jill A]

I'm the latter Jill (posted at 12:15), I guess I should change my name so we don't get mixed up!

[Jessica]

I'm an INTJ...always have been. I've slid back and forth along the middle of the scale for the N, T, and J, but I've always been an I. I started waaaay left on the I scale and have been moving more towards the middle, but I'm still solidly in the I camp.

Like others, I too like the energy definition better than the Wikipedia one (I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia, but that's a whole 'nother subject). I like going out with friends, though big groups of strangers intimidate the heck out of me. To me there's nothing worse than walking into a room and discovering I know NO ONE.

Like Nina, I think it's a matter of control. In my job, I get up in front of large groups and talk all the time. It doesn't bother me at all. Put me in the coffee hour/reception part, and I'll find a corner and hide.

Now if I could just find an SO that understands my I needs if not is one himself!!

[Patricia Rice]

As once a shy introvert, now just a plain ordinary writer type introvert, I like the distinction Claudia made. Shyness is learned and can be unlearned. Lots of children are shy, possibly because they're introverts intimidated by rowdy extroverts. But with practice and confidence, the shyness may go away with maturity. But many people think "shy" and "introvert" are the same thing, which is why we get that "I never thought of you as introverted!" response. We're not backward, just less inclined to be forward. "G"

And from the sounds of this discussion, it appears most readers are introverts. Which might explain statistics about book reading!

[maryjoputney]

From MJP:

Introverts of the world, unite! Except that we won't because it's against our nature. No Million Introvert Marches for us. :)

Jill, I'm glad you're leaving a job that's such a poor fit with your temperament. Good luck at finding a better place. A solution like Kay's--working in a library--might be a good one.

Edith, LOL about you expressing your inner Gemini by being a party-loving introvert. :)

As has been mentioned, introverted and shy are NOT the same things. Shyness can have a genetic component, which is hard to get over, but more normal kid shyness can usually be improved.

Nina, interesting thought about one's E/I-ness being affected by the degree of control. I think you're onto something there.

Kalen, one of the links I posted had a version of the test where option three was "I'm really in the middle," which I did NOT find particularly helpful!

Mary Jo

[RevMelinda]

Mary Jo, what an interesting topic! Years ago I was given a two-day battery of personality/vocational tests (including the Rorschach, LOL), which was required for becoming a minister in my denomination. Learned A LOT about myself (er, maybe too much?) At that point (age 22 or so) I tested as ENFJ, kind of wobbly between J and P like I could go either way.

For fun I took some of the tests you linked to in your posts, and now, 20 years later, I have indeed migrated over to P--I tested ENFP on all of them. Then I read the Keirsey info on "The Champion" and totally spooked myself--almost eerily accurate! Yikes!

Now I think I'll get my daughter to take the tests and see where she comes out. . .

[Susan Wilbanks]

Has anyone else ever taken Myers-Briggs or a similar test as one of your characters? I did one day, and discovered that while my heroines are all over the map, my heroes, to a man, are ENTJ's, except for one who, like me, is a slight introvert and so comes out as an INTJ. I don't TRY to write identical heroes, and I think they're individuals in their personalities and interests. All I can think is that I find men easier to write when their core personalities are closer to my own.

[Jane George]

Hmmm, veddy interesting when applied to characters!

I haven't used anything like this in character development (yet) but I have used Jungian male archetypes (King, Warrior, Magician, Lover) and their shadows.

When I start Rorschach-ing my characters, I'll know I've gone round the bend.

[Janga]

I am a strong (88-95% in all areas) INFP and have been every time I have taken the test. I loved discovering the MB Inventory as a young teacher because so much of what happened in the classroom made more sense to me--such as why my constant rearranging of desks drove my predominantly S students wild.

One of my office mates and closest friends from grad school days is an ENFP. We have very similar teaching philosophies, and both of us are strong proponents of conferencing in the teaching of writing. But on the days we conferenced 20 or so students in twenty minute intervals, she wanted to go out afterwards to celebrate and discuss the day's accomplishments. I wanted to crawl into a cave and not speak to anyone for twenty-four hours.

My sister, an ISTJ political scientist, and I have worked on several projects together. They turn out well because we contribute different strengths, but we drive one another crazy in the process--she with her SJ need for detail and order and me with my big-picture, eternal open-endedness. :)

[AnneGracie]

Mary-Jo, this is so interesting. Well before I was published, I did a myers-briggs workshop run by a colleague in my workplace (an education institute for adults.)

When she saw my results, (which basically said I had both introvert and extrovert tendencies) she said I must have done it wrong, but when I repeated the test the same results showed up.

Several years later I bumped into her, and we swapped news, and I told her I was now writing for a living, and we talked about how I saw so few outside people, but how I loved it, nevertheless.

She immediately said," Aha! So that explains those Myers-Briggs results. They always bothered me. You should have told me you're a writer! Now it all makes sense."

[Jo Beverley]

Jo here, another introvert. Seems to be in the majority here, and I'm not surprised.

When I discovered the Myers-Briggs definition, it was such a relief, because I really do like being with people. It enriches my life in many ways. But then I have to find solitude to recharge.

Mary Jo's correct about those national conferences. By the end, the 98% introverts are woozy and trying to avoid all contact, while the 2% extroverts are bouncing off the walls looking for people to party with.

As for characters, I don't think about Myers-Briggs or any other system, but I probably never have principals who are really E. I'd exhaust myself writing about them -- or have someone poison them so they'd have to lie down and be quiet for a few days.

Jo :)

[maryjoputney]

From MJP:

>>on the days we conferenced 20 or so students in twenty minute intervals, she wanted to go out afterwards to celebrate and discuss the day's accomplishments. I wanted to crawl into a cave and not speak to anyone for twenty-four hours.>I probably never have principals who are really E. I'd exhaust myself writing about them -- or have someone poison them so they'd have to lie down and be quiet for a few days.>>

LOL, Jo!

Mary Jo

<

LOL! My sister said just about exactly this after I sold my first book, and under questioning, I admitted that I was always rewriting stories in my head and changing endings of movies and the like. I suppose it's no surprise that writers test like we have multiple personalities, since we have all these people living in our heads.

[maryjoputney]

From MJP:

Hmm, my previous comments got scrambled, with three sets of comments getting intertwined and bits missing.

For what it's worth, they all made sense when I wrote them....

Mary Jo, quitting while ahead

[Cathy Leming]

I'm an INTJ--strongly "I"

This comes as no surprise, especially when you said an introvert is exhausted by crowds. That's me. Although, I love to be around my whole extended family at holidays--cousins, second cousins, aunts, etc., etc. They don't exhaust me. They energize me. However, on a business trip--or even RWA National--I'm exhausted by the crowds, or the very thought of networking. I room alone.

[Brenda J]

I've done MB & others & it's always the same, I couldn't be any more "I" unless I fell off the scale.

Makes for trying times at work and with family & friends who just can't understand I's (even those who CLAIM to be I's).

I'm quite surprised that the ratio is only 3:1 extroverts. It feels more like 50:1.

But I'm happy with my hermit label. And as far as writer friends, that's why I's have email - a way to be in touch with like minded people without the person to person drain. 8-)

[Mary Connealy]

My husband and I did a Myers-Briggs test as part of marital counseling...31 years ago.
We came out as exactly the same in every category except he was an introvert and I was an extrovert. Well, that is exactly the opposite of what I thought it would be. I'M an introvert... shy, love to read and be alone.
He can talk with anyone about anything, anytime.
But our pastor said Extrovert and Introvert was about more than talking, it was about revealing yourself to others, being open. So, while I didn't talk so much, when I did, I was more open about my feelings and ideas, where as my husband talked motors and movies and sports, but not about his feelings so much.
It made some sense...but I still think I'm an introvert.
Scuttling away now, back into my cave to write. :)