Something completely different

       From Loretta:
      Today I ordered new eyeglasses.  If I could have got away with not doing it, I would have, because I love my 1960s glasses.  But I am getting blinder and it takes extra time to put new lenses in old frames because they have to go far away to a special place where one ancient person still knows the arcane secrets of those old frames.  This would mean I’d have to live with contact lenses for a couple of weeks.  Though I am very, very young (in my mind, anyway), the days have long passed when I could read comfortably wearing contact lenses.  Especially old maps and old books.  So I chose new frames.  Sob.
      Normally, getting something new is not a traumatic experience.  In classic Gemini fashion, I love change.  I get a new hair style about every six weeks, and my hair has been every color in the hairdresser’s palette.  Not completely.  Once it was a little bit blue, and another time a little purple.  But yes, it was completely orange for a memorable six weeks or so.  I listen to a college radio station in order to hear new and different music.  And I love giving away last year’s clothes and getting new stuff, as my credit cards will attest.
      But I have been so attached to those cat’s eye glasses.
       Still, it has been a really long time.  Five, six years?  More?
      Time for a change.
      And the new ones are pretty cute.
      Which brings me to today’s subject:  Trying something different.
      Some months ago, I had an interesting email exchange with historical romance writer Michelle Styles, who lives in the UK.  Reading her signature line, I was astonished to discover the title The Gladiator’s Honor.

http://www.amazon.com/Gladiators-Honor-Harlequin-Historical/dp/0373294174/sr=1-1/qid=1170342850/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-7840416-0080423?ie=UTF8&s=books

  It turned out--wonder of wonders--that she was writing historical romances set in ancient Rome for Harlequin Mills & Boon.  I told her I was intrigued, and she very kindly sent me her book.  At that point I was deep in deadline frenzy, then revisions, then copy/edit--and well, you all know the drill by now.  Then the holidays came.  And finally, finally, the other day, as I waited for my husband in the dental surgeon’s office, I began the book.  Unfortunately for my husband, there was a very long wait.  Fortunately for me, there was a very long wait because I was completely captivated by the book.
       It was different!
      Ancient Rome.  Not England.  Not early 19th century.
      And because it was set in ancient Rome, the author was able to tackle subjects that relate to that specific time and place, yet resonate in our own.  The “honor” of the title is a crucial theme in the book.
      And because the hero is a gladiator, he’s all big and muscle-y, plus tall, dark and, you know, Italian.  And because he’s a gladiator, he’s dangerous.  Hot.  Yes.  Don’t go by the picture on the cover.  But you know all about not going by the cover, since the Wenches have compl--er--explained about covers.  At length.  Repeatedly.
       So I wondered, How many of you would want to read this book?  A lot of you?  Would you like the complete change from the familiar settings?  Can you see ancient Rome-set romances becoming a big thing?
      We’ve been hearing a lot of complaints from both  readers and authors about how narrow the historical romance genre has become, squeezing writers out and into other genres.  We’ve heard publishers saying that readers choose with their pocketbooks--and readers saying they don’t get a choice anymore.
      Don’t get me wrong.  I love early 19th century England.  I loved it before I started writing and it’s one of the reasons I started writing Regencies.  I am endlessly fascinated by mundane details of the time period, as last week’s blog attested.  That doesn’t mean that this is all I want for my leisure reading.  In fact, I’ve found it’s better for my writing to avoid similar types of books, especially when I’ve got a work in progress.
      But since so much historical romance is set in late 18th and early 19th C England, I have ended up reading other kinds of books:  mystery primarily, and some fantasy and non-fiction--and, of course, Wenches' historical novels.
      This time, though, I didn’t have to worry about being influenced by the author’s approach to the time period, and I wasn’t fussing about her interpretation of history and critiquing, say, the language.  My sense was that she got everything right, but since I know so very little, Hypercritic wasn’t at work.  Nor was Envious Author thinking, Now why didn’t I think of that?
      Because it was completely different.  I could sit back and enjoy it as a normal reader would.  And I am pretty sure that normal readers would enjoy this book.
      What I was thinking was, We need more of this.
      We need more that’s completely different.
      I’m pretty sure a great many of you think so.
      But my question is, Would you buy a romance set in ancient Rome?
      Or in the world of the Vikings?
     Or 16th century Venice?
      If you had a vast array of settings to choose from, what would you actually pay actual money for?  If you really could vote with your pocketbook, in other words, what would you vote for?

Comments

[Michelle]

I would. I specifically look for and buy books that are set in different time periods and places. I bought The Gladiator's Honor because it was set in ancient Rome. I'm glad I did because it was a good read - very fun to read a story set somewhere other than the usual.

-Michelle

[Francois]

I would buy a romance set pretty much anywhere as long as it was good. My only trouble with some eras is that there are some terribly unromantic details which my mind inserts at key points if the author doesn't. How many diseases those Regency rakes have picked up from shagging around or the likelihood of the heroine dying in childbirth. The Regency period is bad enough - go back to the Vikings and my disbelief no longer suspends itself (unless supported by a book that is truly marvellous or sets out to be unrepentantly modern like Julia Quinn). Plus I just love the witty conversation and comedies of manners you get in more modern society.

That said, I haven't actually tried a Viking book - the covers tend to be even more appalling than the usual bare-chested swollen-muscle antics. Where does a Viking find the products to do their hair like that?

[Liz]

Not from HQN. Actually, last night I ordered my first HQN books in some time because they picked up Carla Kelly. And then I was eligible for a freebie. Scanning excerpts it looked they are still WILDLY spotty in quality. Which means that while I am now open to buying from the, it's not sure why not.

If Edith wrote in any time period / locale I would buy it. Flat out any. I can name several authors that I would buy anything from. Those women aside, I would like to say absolutely but I'm not certain. I don't care for Scottish romances, so I tend to barely glance at them. Same with vampire. I'm sure I'm missing some decent books, but I just have no faith there. I bought those Egyptian set books in the 80's - I buy most things set in Italy - I would be predisposed to buy them, yes, but they'd have to find their way into my hands first and I don't know if they would. I tend to buy author then publishing line -and it takes a lot to shake me out of those grooves.

[susanna in alabama]

I'm open to any kind of setting for romance (or mystery, for that matter) as long as the writing is good. I love to find out about other times, and reading romances by authors who care about history is a lovely way to go about it. One difficulty, though, is that the social strictures or the brutish realities of daily living in some historical times would make straight romance harder to carry off. One advantage of the Regency period is that the wealthy folk in them have the money, health, time and social environment conducive to a fairytale romance.

I find myself bristling at the romances where the King gets to choose who the titled marry. I still enjoy them, but my solid American roots make me want to tell the King where he can put his opinion. But that was the reality of those people at that time. I think similar issues in other time periods make them a little more difficult to make palatable for the modern reader.

But try anyway! I'd read any time period from Rome, Italy BC to Rome, GA in the 21st century that the Wenches turned their attention to.

[Liz]

ps - I have to laugh, I just realized the only HQN's I've bought in memory were Miranda Jarrett. I didn't even make the connection of author taking over from publishing line until I mentioned Carla Kelly. So I don't even know what I buy!

[Liz]

Ok, i'm wordy today. Double ps - if we can suggest authors to interview I'd like to see Barbara Metzger. with such great bloggers here I don't get out in the interview community at all so you need to bring it to me!

[Piper]

I'm not opposed to reading a novel from any time period (or genre). One of my favourite series from ancient Rome is the Didius Falco series. I guess I do find certain eras harder to choke down than others. I'm not a fan of novels (romances) set in middle ages. i can't get past the dirt in my mind! I know darn well no one bathed, and I can't tolerate it, even in my imagination. Perhaps that's why I like ancient Rome, I know they bathed!

[LorettaChase]

I, too, am more openminded about Rome-set stories because of Lindsey Davis's Falco series. One of the cool things about stories set in ancient Rome (which covers a lot of ground, BTW) is the level of civilization--and the baths and running water help reduce the ick factor. Though my knowledge of the era is very limited, I have a sense that women had a bit more independence and perhaps more rights in some areas than they did in the early 19th C. Divorce, for instance, did not seem to put a woman beyond the pale.
Re Harlequin--I have to give them credit for publishing these books. And we do have to remember that they put out a LOT of books. So going by the Bell curve model, one's going to encounter greater volume along the range of quality--but that must include a number of very good books.

[shscott21]

Harlequin Historicals and HQN have been among the very few romance lines that dare to publish "different" historical settings. They've let authors set books in 19th century China, ancient Egypt, and the Italian Renaissance. They'll accept American settings from colonial days to the 1920s -- they're even still publishing Westerns that no other house will touch. I'll gladly lay credit for this open-mindedness at the feet of one senior editor -- Tracy Farrell -- who has never been swayed by trends, only by good stories. (and she's also one of the nicest editors in NYC.)

I agree, not every book is a gem, but at least they manage to offer a bit of diversity to readers....

Susan/Miranda, bravely setting her current historical romances in 18th century Rome and Venice.

[shscott21]

Oh, Liz, I just saw your comment about Miranda Jarrett being the only HQN/HH author you buy -- awww, thank you!
Miranda/Susan

[Nina P]

Uh... no Vikings please. All I can see is unwashed bodies. But an Ancient Rome romance sounds yummy (probably because I’m thinking of The Gods) I'll have to check out THE GLADIATOR’S HONOR.

Personally, I like a little blood and guts with my romance. Ok, a lot. I love Spartacus staring Goran Visnjic (Once a slave. Forever a legend.) and Troy (For Honor.). They're not really romances I suppose, but there was a heavy element of it, IMHO.

I'd also pay good money for a well written high fantasy romance that grabbed my by the throat.

Please, don't get me wrong. I love 19c England as a backdrop for romance. It has the basic amenities (transportation, reasonable safety, basic sanitization) which makes it easy to write in and fun to visit. But no one is going to whip out a broadsword and forcefully carry you off to the slave pits and we're way past believing in the Devil or even God (to some extent) as a viral force. Basically the danger factor is low which makes romance more believable.

Loretta, and other Wenches, do you see/predict the market heading off in a this or a different direction?

Nina, who'd like to see a picture of Loretta in her new glasses.

[Gretchen F]

I have read Jo's medieval books and loved them. I also like Jayne Ann Krentz's futuristic books. But I picked up those books, which are not my usual read, because I liked the authors' other works, and knew I could depend on them for a good story.I don't like Westerns because I was raised on a farm, and ranching does not sound romantic to me. I know the heroine is eventually going to have to clean a chicken.
On the subject of paranormal- I just wasted seven dollars on a book in which the werewolf hero stakes his claim to the heroine by the usual canine method- HE PEES ON THE CARPET. HONEST! I AM NOT MAKING IT UP! I think I won't be buying anymore by that author. Probably not from that publisher. Heck I'll need courage just to buy in the same typeface..

[meardaba]

I usually enjoy viking novels and early English history, but find the flowery, court-intrigue-riddled Italian or Roman novels a bore. If I wanted a history lesson, I would have taken history classes in uni!

Now that you mention the narrow parameters of historical romances, I've never read a historical Greek or German romance. That could be fun (think: hordes of Vandals, and the Trojans!). Has anyone else?

[Valerie L.]

I majored in medieval history in college and will read most anything historical. In fact, I read only historicals in romance and mystery. If an author jumps over into contemporaries or paranormals, I don't follow her, even if I really like her historicals. It's the history I love more than anything.

But even I, History Whore that I am, draw the line at poorly written or, even worse, poorly researched historical romances or mysteries. I do not want to see modern people in period dress.

I love the Falco series (new one out this spring, hooray!) and am not jarred by his Falco's more modern approach. Ancient Rome was much more like modern day life than medieval or Viking or Victorian. So, it works! I read Gladiator's Honor and loved it. But I've been turned off by many of the more recent historical offerings. The history is used merely as wallpaper, and flimsy stuff at that. The characters talk modern and act modern and I've found myself tossing more than one recently published book into the resale pile. I did NOT be doing that with Gladiator's Honor.

[Edith]

I would, and do, buy books set anywhere, anytime, if the author has me wanting to read beyond the first page. I thought nothing would get me to buy a book set in the neolithic period - but then along came Joan Wolf, and I was hooked.
Actually, I'd love to write about times long gone because the further off you go, the closer to the mythic you get.
And Liz - awww. Thanks for the compliment.
(and if I am not mistaken, do not fret - Barbara Metzger will be appearing in an interview at a Wenches near you soon.)
And Gretchen, if a hero peed on my carpet, (werewolf or not) I'd whack him in the head with a rolled up newspaper.

[AgTigress]

Well, personally I don't read any fiction set in ancient Rome or in the Roman Empire, including Britain, on principle, owing to the fact that I have spent more than 40 years studying the subject professionally, and would therefore instantly go into 'work' mode rather than 'leisure' mode when reading them.

Having said that, I think the Roman period, for other readers, is a perfect one for historical fiction - there were many values that are not unlike those of today; a thirst for knowledge, a fair level of literacy, a certain amount of female empowerment, lots of written documentation, a concern with personal hygiene, and so forth.

I am not in the least bit bothered by the general grubbiness of the Middle Ages; that's something that one would cease to notice in a matter of weeks if one were there. But I find the medieval mind-set and the architecture depressing.

However, regardless of the vast differences in social customs, rules and rituals in different societies, there are many values that unite human beings across all space and time, and a good writer can tap into those, and write books that will delight and inform people who might not have expected to find the setting appealing.

Does anyone know the murder mysteries written in the 1960s by Robert van Gulik, featuring Judge Dee? It's a while since I read them, but they are gripping books. Yet if anyone had asked me beforehand whether I would enjoy murder mysteries set in Tang Dynasty (7th C. AD) China, I'd have said 'no' - and I bet that's what the average publisher, terrified of doing anything new, would still say. Iltimately it all depends on the research and the writing.

:-)

[AgTigress]

I meant 'ultimately', of course, not 'iltimately'. Duh.

[Jill]

I am delurking for the first time to say I would love to see more variety in historical romance.
I think a lot of readers have moved away from historical romance to historical fiction and/or historical mystery b/c they crave variety and a certain "meatiness" (for lack of a better word) that most historical romances today don't have. Just my two cents.

[Teresa]

I'll admit Ancient Rome isn't my first choice for settings, but I'm certainly open to a lot. Like the Viking Period, both English Civil Wars (Maud/Stephen, King Charles/Parliament) etc. Still, the next time I see Gladiator's Honor, I may just pick it up - extending myself is good and as you point out, sometimes being JUST a reader is a good thing.

[Queen Bee]

Loretta,
You've written some different & fascinating settings yourself, with books taking place in Albania and in Egypt and I for one am glad you did. Great books.

I don't care if the characters get "grubby". Think of how disgusting those communal baths must have been at Bath during regency times, the sick and diseased jumbled together in the tepid water.

Though like Edith I would draw the line at any "marking" werewolves.

Wonderful blog, ladies!

[Jane George]

Give me France! Yes, poor maligned France. Especially the ladies' storytelling salons in the 1600s.

I'd also like to read more stories set in the world of the ancient Celts. But so little is known of that culture that most authors just use the myths as a springboard into fantasy.

And...Belle Epoque Paris and Vienna. So much more romantic than England or the United States at that time.

Vive la difference.

PS Are you going to update your Wenchly pic to reflect your new style in specs? :-)

[Maggie Robinson]

I have and will read fiction set anywhere, any time. So much depends on the author but I have fond recollections of Roman legionnaires, Saxon warlords and Regency vampires. The one genre I can't seem to get into is American frontier fiction. I guess I just saw too many Westerns as a kid.

I'm awfully fond of books set on islands...Atlantis, anyone?

[merry]

I'm quite opposite all of you open minded folks. I only like books set in England or with English characters - in the periods from Jo's Mallorans to Lord Peter Wimsey.(which of course, includes Regency)(Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody books have english characters set in Egypt) I enjoy, and would like more, books which use characters from the new and growing middle class, not just nobility.-- the teachers, lawyers, clergymen, law enforcement, artists, writers, etc, as characters. Though I read books that wenches have written in other periods, I don't enjoy them as much. I am also not interested in vampires. The parallel world Mary Jo creates in "The Marriage Spell" is fascinating to me, because although the characters can do some magic, it is limited, and they need others to do it. It's also so psychologically true, that it feels more humanistic than other magic based stories. I don't know why I have this strong preference; I have often wondered....
Merry

[LorettaChase]

"regardless of the vast differences in social customs, rules and rituals in different societies, there are many values that unite human beings across all space and time, and a good writer can tap into those, and write books that will delight and inform people who might not have expected to find the setting appealing."
What AgTigress said.

I for one am ready for more of Ancient Rome and some Restoration era romances. Medieval has limited appeal for me but I'd like to see more of it out there. As I said, I love writing about the 19th century but it would be nice to see a bit more variety on the bookshelves.
In my own work, I find I do have to venture to less familiar settings from time to time: It's stimulating to the imagination, and of course, means a fresh area to research *g*

[LorettaChase]

Gretchen, I've never been a werewolf fan, never understood the appeal and I fail to see the hotness factor of peeing on the carpet. I'm with Edith. On the other hand, this being a werewolf--a really big dog--maybe we want the Dog Whisperer. Rules, Boundaries, Limitations, anyone?

[Liz]

"So going by the Bell curve model, one's going to encounter greater volume along the range of quality--but that must include a number of very good books."

Oh, no doubt - I just don't have the time to really sort through anymore. I've got two small kids and my buying is pretty automatic these days. These authors. Money left? These publishers. Money left? Hm, browse till one hits the other. I don't always get that far!

[Liz]

"And Liz - awww. Thanks for the compliment."

Look at you with the modesty thing going on. Like that's a secret! Liz - fan of that Layton woman since, well, let's not embarrass me.

"I just saw your comment about Miranda Jarrett being the only HQN/HH author you buy "

I had to laugh, because here I am saying I don't buy HQN and then sitting right there is proof I'm a liar. Which really just illustrates that if I have the author on my purchase list, I don't do much but put it in the basket and take it home.

[RevMelinda]

Hi Loretta,

Joining late from the West Coast zone. . .Loretta, I love Thursdays. Thank you for a great post. I love your glasses, think the photo of you on the coverflat of Not Quite A Lady is gorgeous (great color saturation!), and yet I stand in Gemini solidarity with your decision to Move On.

I have to confess (you won't tell anyone, will you?) that I was a Latin major in college. I loved that strong, no-nonsense, authoritative, arrogant, masculine sound of Latin rolling off the tongue. It makes all other languages sound wimpy and fussy. That being said, I don't know about romances set in ancient Rome. I'd be game to try, but somehow I have a feeling it wouldn't quite match with my mental image and I'd be disappointed one way or another.

Periods I would like to try--hm. I do like "turn of the century" tales--any century you like--because of the "millennial spirit" that seems to come to life then. I also think of periods in terms of the literature I like--so the EM Forster period would be nice. I also am intrigued by the World War I period, and the American revolution (men in tights again--or buckskins).

I also second Merry's request for more books about "characters from the new and growing middle class, not just nobility"--and, while I'm at it, since someone mentioned Carla Kelly--Sherrie, do you think the Wenches could persuade her to come blog here for a day to promote her new book?

Melinda

[Chez]

I miss the medievals and pirate stories. I love the new paranormals which I think are a fantastic addition to romance fiction, but yes I miss the greater variety of settings with the historicals. Must admit that I am still a huge fan of the regency period novels and the few georgian ones around as well, but still there appear to be less choices every month. I'm sorry to hear about the American Western type books, but frankly they were never my cup of tea. However, I know lots of people were extremely fond of them and I am disheartened to hear of their demise.

[Sherrie Holmes]

From Sherrie:
Hey, how about a Genghis Kahn Mongolian romance? No? Well, maybe not. And Gretchen--a werewolf hero who pees on the carpet??? What a scream!

Actually, I would love to read romances set in Colonial America. Or the American West, but no Indian warrior/white woman romances, please. Had my fill of them, and got really tired of the hackneyed "noble savage" and authors who used the book as a forum for telling us ad nauseum how badly the Indians were treated by the white people. I've read a few books set in Ancient Rome, but the political cloak and dagger stuff is generally so prominent that it intrudes.

I will always love Regencies and Regency-set historicals. They are my favorite. I was mad for anything Scottish until they started churning out mediocre romances filled with Scots men running around in kilts and peppering every sentence with bonny-this and wee-that.

[Jacquie]

I used to prefer westerns, but because what few I was been able to find have been in the mediocre range, I've moved on to other sub-genres. I just read a Time Travel where the heroine goes from modern times to ancient Egypt. Great story.

I enjoyed Roberta Gellis's A Mortal Bane, set during the reign of King Stephen, and her Greek mythology novels are wonderful. How about the Roaring 20's, which resulted in a major cultural revolution? No wonder my grandpa thought the teenagers in the 60's sexual revolution were trite.

Baths in viking books? No problem. If everyone is the same level of dirty, then I can get past that. It's a viewpoint issue. Medieval stories intrigue me, as do the ancient Druids.

I do love Georgian, Regency, and Victorian romances, but would prefer that not every book be set there. For those of us who like to branch out, venturing into fantasy can be a good alternative. I'm a dedicated historical romance reader and a contemporary has to be really, really good to pull me in--but, make it urban fantasy and I'm there. Of course, if it's a historical fantasy, I'll like it even better yet.

The Word Wenches' blog is wonderful. Good job, ladies!

And Happy Groundhog Day!

[LorettaChase]

This has been such an interesting discussion. The variety of viewpoints does, I think, make a case for a bit more variety in historical romances. Like others, I tend to buy by author first, but an intriguing premise or setting can tempt me to something new very easily. The trick is--as Liz pointed out--finding good stuff in a limited amount of time, and for most of us, limited budget.
Regarding pix of me with the new glasses: that's got to happen, and will...when the stars are properly aligned. I'm still trying to catch up with updating my website but that's the place to see various changes in hair style/color, etc. And get a glimpse into my styles of time past.

[Carrie Lofty]

Michelle now posts as a regilar to the multi-author blog I founded, Unusual Historicals, which tackles the the topic of narrow place/time settings in historical romances. We are a group of authors devoted to expanding the genre!

http://unusualhistoricals.blogspot.com

If you are interested in contributing, we are conducting an ongoing poll of historical romance readers. Tell us what you would like to read! (Links on the blog sidebar.)

[Joan]

Ladies,

What a great discussion on historical variety! I am especially heartened to hear so many being open to Roman historicals.

My Roman historical manuscript THE PATRICIAN'S DESIRE was a 2006 Golden Heart finalist at Romance Writers of America's annual conference. While I was thrilled beyond words to be awarded this honor I held a LITTLE bit of extra pride in that it was set in 52 AD Alexandria/Rome.

So from your lips (blogs) to the publisher's ears LOL

[Sela Carsen]

I was so excited when Michelle's book came out -- Romans! No more Regencies! I od'd on Regencies and can only take them in limited doses anymore. Rather like suddenly having an allergic reaction to a favorite food.

And her book was so above and beyond even what I expected. The historical viewpoint felt so vivid and true. No Ton in tunics here. The political machinations that often bore me in some historicals are vital to the plot, but not central.

I'm eagerly awaiting her next Roman releases and would love to see more!

I'd love to see some Spanish Golden Age settings, more Italian Renaissance, Romano-Britain, even ancient Japan (without the slash, which just confuses me).

[Joelle]

Hi !

Right... I've also bought this books 'cause it sounds quite different. I also like regency and so on but it's so great to have different things... to stay in bed and travel in time and place at the same time. Merline Lovelace was, for me, the first who did this with her books (Rome, Egypt...). I would like to read more romance with japanese, chinese settings but the new historical market isn't ready for this, it seems... Too bad !
Love from JOELLE - France

[Jen Black]

Since I write stories set in tenth and eleventh century Scotland and Dublin, (Banners of Alba/ Dark Pool)I'm really glad to see so many of you will venture away from Regency and Victorian romances! Having said that, I've just finished a late Victorian, and I'm contemplating a Regency because it seems HMB still take two or three Regencies for every other time period.
Happy reading! Jen, UK