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  • The Word Wenches include Jo Beverley, Joanna Bourne, Nicola Cornick, Cara Elliott/Andrea Penrose, Anne Gracie, Susan King, Mary Jo Putney, and Patricia Rice. We've been blogging since May of 2006, making us one of the longest-running group author blogs on the Internet.

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  • Jo Beverley

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    Andrea Penrose

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  • Edith Layton
    Word Wench 2006-2009

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  • Years published - 164. Novels published - 231. Novellas published - 74. Range of story dates - 9 centuries (1026-present).

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Lil

I love tangled inheritance stories. There are so many possible combinations, what with missing heirs, what's entailed and what isn't, and so on. And weren't the Scots a bit less hidebound than the English when it came to female inheritance?

As for the current kerfuffle in Britain, it's kind of hard for me as an American to take it seriously. I'm sure it matters to the people directly affected, and little Suzie would probably like to be able to lord it over her younger brother. But really, what difference would it make?

Liz

Given the history of wastrel, male heirs, one would think a female heir might be a relief, unless women turn wastrel too.

Nicola Cornick

Thanks for your comment, Lil. The laws of inheritance do indeed provide a very fruitful area for plots.

I'm interested in the attitude of others towards male primogeniture because I imagine that a society such as America which is more meritocratic in that sense must surely support equality? I find it interesting that I love that sort of story in a historical context but as a modern female I would find the thought of a brother inheriting over my head to be intolerable! Naturally I would believe I could run an estate just as well as a man.

Nicola Cornick

There is always that chance, Liz! But women have been running estates - and businesses - very efficiently for centuries, regardless of whether their name is on the inheritance or not.

NancyS.Goodman

I completely agree with you Nicola. I know i could do just as well as my brother. I think that for historical fiction purposes the dispossessed female has always made for interesting story lines, but I am intrigued by stories with female inheritance.
I was always curious, though how this came to be, and why female inheritance wasn't written into each entailment simply to protect the family's direct line of inheritance, sort of like a "catch-all" in case there were only female heirs.

Debbie

I've always wondered what happens when the female heir marries a male heir -- are the estates then merged?

Nicola Cornick

Thanks, Nancy! Yes it is a great storyline with so much potential but it's also great that we have the option of female inheritance.

I don't know why it wasn't written in to each entailment as a fail safe. Interesting question. I suspect that perhaps peers genuinely did not believe that female inheritance was a good thing. If some of them still don't think so they were probably more rabid about it in centuries past. Seems very short-sighted though and the demise of more than one title was the result.

Nicola Cornick

I'm no expert, Debbie, but my guess is that the marriage brings the two estates together and then the heir of the marriage inherits both.

HJ

I suspect that one of the reasons why male primogeniture has such a hold is because of another old tradition, that of the wife taking her husband's name on marriage. Combined with (excessive?) pride in the family name on the part of some, the prospect of the estate passing to a woman whose child and heir would have a different name is unacceptable for many.

I'm also interested in Lil's point - it was my understanding that many American captains of industry used to operate their own system of male primogeniture, passing their businesses down to their eldest son if at all possible to the exclusion of any daughters. or is that just in books??!!

theo

You sent me some information in the past on females inheriting estates which I still have. It's a subject that has always fascinated me and I love reading historicals where the estate should have been hers but he, the idiot/drunkard/Casanova/pre-teen male inherits and then almost loses the estate and the problems that ensue. I also like to read those rare stories where there really is a female at the helm.

And my opinion on the monarchy? It should be the one most qualified, but we all know *that's* not ever gonna happen...

;o)

Anne Gracie

I think a big part of why daughters were cut out of the line of inheritance in the past was because until very recently, on marriage, they were then deemed to belong to their husband. As did everything they owned. They were then entirely dependent on the kindness/goodwill/generosity of their husband, unless a trust had been set up beforehand.

We already have instances of heiresses being kidnapped or seduced away by ruthless men after their money. How much worse would it be if whole estates (which could include villages, forests, and dozens of rented farms) were to be had by simple elopement?

Of course, the same goes for female fortune-hunters, but the law was heavily weighted in favor of men, and so the risk was not as great. Even so, a female fortune hunter was still dependent on her husband, and would be no real threat to the estate.

In a plot, it's great fun, in real life, not so much.
Of course, now women are no longer owned by their husbands, and their property remains their own (in general) so that argument no longer holds.

Nicola Cornick

Very good point, HJ. The issue of the name was cited by lots of the aristocrats in the interview I read as being the thing they were most concerned about. Many wanted their daughters to inherit but only if their husbands took the family name.

Nicola Cornick

LOL, Theo! Wouldn't it be great if they had to take a monarchy competence test before it was decided who should inherit!

Nicola Cornick

Thanks, Anne. Yes that is such a good point about a wife being property (and therefore a wife's property being the property) of the husband. Again it makes for wonderful inspiration for historical romance.

But thank goodness marriage and inheritance laws have changed, at least for we mere mortals not in the upper classes in the case of inheritance. My mind is boggling at the thought of being my husband's property and if I mentioned it to him he would probably laugh like a drain.

Margot

I find inheritance laws fascinating, especially all the exceptions for females. (For some reason, none of my siblings seem to agree with me on this, and always seem rather bored when I try to explain...)

As for modern day aristocrats, I definitely think they should go with eldest child. (I'd certainly be upset if I was passed over in favor of my younger brother!) But then, I'm neither British nor titled, and unabashedly feminist, so I'm likely biased. I also believe that in general, women should keep their names upon marriage (of course, this is every woman's choice, but to me it seems like a holdover of women belonging to their husband), and maybe give the kids hyphenated names (although this can get rather unwieldy, and when my parents divorced, it definitely became an issue of picking sides for my younger siblings). Frankly, though, in this day and age, the aristocracy really seems quite obsolete, and the fact that this is such an issue for them just seems to underline that fact.

Margot

Debbie- As far as I know, usually both titles would go to the eldest son, with the mother's potentially going to a daughter in the absence of a son. (The father's would likely have a normal inheritance path, and so would go to a brother/nephew/male cousin.) However, in certain circumstances, the titles can be separated by royal decree- one set of titles would go to the eldest son, and one to the second. I can't remember the real-life example, but I know Jo Beverley used it for the children of Rothgar and Diana from Devilish.

Nicola Cornick

Thanks for your comments, Margot. We share your fascination with inheritance laws here! They may be complicated but they are interesting with it. I love all the exceptions for female inheritance and the way that has played out down the centuries. There are a number of aristocratic families whose descent would have been a lot less painful and complex if only they had embraced female inheritance!

Marsha Bolden

In the United States, businesses often are for sons to inherit and jewelry comes down to daughters. In the 1800's the Louisiana Purchase changed certain rules of inheritance because the French and Spanish rules of inheritance were different from the English rules. Eliminating primogeniture and entailment was one of the early efforts various states made to equalize inheritance for younger sons not daughters. In romance stories, the failure of the English system to equalize inheritance has led to younger sons being required to patronize their older brothers for their entire adult life and is very unhealthy for teaching men to be responsible adults.

Ella Quinn

I love that I can use inheritence as a plot device, but I think it's past time the law be changed.

Nicola Cornick

Marsha, that's fascinating about the division of inheritance in the US and also about the Louisiana Purchase. Thank you!

Ella, my sentiments exactly!

Mary Jo Putney

LOL! What a great post, Nicola, and what a great premise for a novel. Must put FORBIDDEN on the 'to buy' list. *G*

Nicola Cornick

Thank you, Mary Jo. It was a fun premise to work on - I like turning things on their head and love the idea of female inheritance.

LynS

I love the carving over the gate at Blenheim that specifically states that the daughter can inherit.

Diane Sallans

In the early days when the "head of the family" was expected to physically defend the estate it made more sense to have it be a male, but since that is obsolete it should go to the daughters if there is no son - tho that does bring in the complication of change of last name if she marries & has children to continue the line.

Nicola Cornick

I hadn't heard about that carving at Blenheim, Lyn. What a great way to make a statement!

Diane, that's a very good point about the head of the family physically defending the estate. Not that girls couldn't do that too but it would be rare. I was reading about Aethelflaed, Lady of the Mercians, recently. She was a formidable military leader, kind of what I would expect from the daughter of Alfred the Great!

nancy

DEspite the fact that peerage titles and estates entailed on peerages didn't become the property of the husband, many families in the past and now, fear that female inheritance would send the title and estate down a different path. It could easily lead to many titles now owned by different families being owned by a few families as sons inherit titles from mother and fathers and then marry a lady with her own title so their son would inherit all three. It is a good way to eliminate the hereditary peerage .

nancy

The trouble with many inheritance stories is that so many people get the rules wrong. Modern writers want daughters and bastards to be able to inherit so write the book as though they could.
On the other hand there are authors who seem to believe that females couldn't own anything, ever, and were under a guardian until age 25 or married.

Nicola Cornick

Thanks for pointing that out, Nancy. Of course this is exactly what happened, even in places like Wrest. The estate survived but went down a different path. it did not eliminate the hereditary peerage but did make it change direction.

Artemisia

I imagine the devastation of WW1 did in a lot of the old families and the subsequent economic collapse did in the estates. As for Will and Kate's kid, just wait a few months and the whole discussion may be academic.

Artemisia

And who says a female heir has to change her name if she marries? Ask Mrs Windsor in Buckingham Palace.

Nicola Cornick

Artemisia, thank you. I think WWI was the single most devastating thing for the great country estates, for lots of reasons. Female inheritance doesn't come close to that.

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