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Michelle Willingham

Hi Nicola!

The hero of my upcoming book TAMING HER IRISH WARRIOR ended up with a tattoo as well, but not in the way I expected! I wrote the book, completed revisions and copyedits, and then a few weeks ago, I saw the cover art for the first time. Imagine my surprise when the medieval Irish hero, Ewan MacEgan, had a tattoo on his upper left arm. (see cover here: www.michellewillingham.com/images/ewan.jpg )

My first reaction was--but, but, he doesn't have a tattoo! When I studied it more, I realized that it gave him a wilder edge. He's a hero who very much goes against the grain and the tattoo suited him. Like you, I turned to the history books and found that Celtic tattoos were definitely a part of their culture, and many were a mark of honor among warriors. I sent a quick note to my editor, asking if I could add the tattoo to the hero's physical description. We raced against the printing press, and neither of us knows if the tattoo actually made it into the book! Guess I'll find out when I get my author copies!

Nicola Cornick

LOL, Michelle, that's quite something for your hero to turn up on the cover with a tattoo when you weren't expecting it! But as you say, that fits right in with the idea of tattoos for Celtic warriors as a mark of honour.

Liz Brooks

Gosh how funny about the book artwork popping up with the tattoo-I guess I thought you guys approved your book covers! Guess not!
My vote is for a moon tattoo-I have a small one on my lower back where no one sees it. Reminds me of the ever changing moon phases. I went by myself and got it when I was 19, it was a very personal thing for me.

Nicola Cornick

I love the idea of a moon tattoo, Liz! I think that body art can be a very ,very special and personal form of expression, can't it.

As for book covers, sometimes we do get to approve them - and sometimes we don't! I'm very lucky that I got to see the gorgeous Brides of Fortune covers before they were agreed but Alice's tattoo doesn't feature on the cover because... ahem!... it's somewhere less visible!

piper

See, I'm just not into tattoos. Cannot appreciate them. Maybe a small discrete one. On a man, I like the tattoo that encircles the bicep, but I'm just not into the whole "body art" thing. I can't appreciate the people who have entire limbs covered in tattoos. I don't know why, they look busy, contrived. Maybe I just appreciate the human form as it is...

Having said that, if (big if) I were to put a tattoo on this middle aged body, my preference would be a Canadian maple leaf (I am Canadian - and proud of it), but since that isn't historical, I think I'd go for a Celtic symbol. I'm not Celtic (ooh, mayb 1/8th) but I like the symbolism of the entwined/linked line.

Happy Canada Day, everyone!!

Maggie Robinson/Margaret Rowe

What a fascinating post! 100% of my four children have a tattoo somewhere or another (I THINK I've seen them all, LOL). I admit to being fairly horrified, even if one daughter was valedictorian of her high school class and graduated Phi Beta Kappa and magna cum laude from college, and the rest are equally intelligent, upright citizens.

And while I did bear the pain of having four kids, I could not bear the pain of being tattooed. But a little red ladybug on my hip would be cute. :)

Virginia DeMarce

I wouldn't have a tattoo at all, but my daughter has the Botticelli's Venus Rising from the Waves (aka Venus on a Clamshell, to the irreverent) on her right hip. It's good-sized.

Nicola Cornick

I'm not big into tattoos either, Piper, but I do like the symbolism of the Celtic knots and the idea of the different strands of life separate yet intertwined. Maggie, the pain aspect puts me off as well LOL! Might be worth it for a Venus on a Clamshell, though! If I was going for it, I think I'd choose a Yorkist white rose. I can't think of a better way to tattoo my allegiance to Richard III - a whyte boar might be a bit much!

Linda Banche

I'm not a fan of pain, especially avoidable pain. Tattoos have always been painful, and before the introduction of antibiotics, might cause your death. I don't even have my ears pierced, because the piercing would hurt.

Linda, who has quite a collection of clip-on earrings.

Susan/DC

My oldest son took the money he got as gifts when he graduated high school and got his first tattoo (that and his signing up for the Army Reserves really brought home to my husband and I that 18 y.o. are legally adults and can do what they want here in the US). He now has several scattered about his upper body, although he had to have a few altered before he went to Iraq in case he was captured. My favorite is two figures from a Chagall painting.

Must admit, however, that I'm actually not a fan. Too often people in their 20s get tattoos on body parts that sag in their 50s, and the effect is not felicitous. Not to mention I always wonder about what happens when and if one gets bored with the tattoos one has. Henna strikes me as perfect, as it's beautiful but fades relatively quickly, and you can get a different design each time.

While the likelihood is small (see comments above), if I were to get a tattoo I'd go for a floral design such as I saw on tiles and on the walls of mosques when I recently visited Istanbul or I'd get one that looked like a Hokkusai (sp?) painting -- love the colors and flowing shapes -- or a Chinese dragon.

NinaP

Great post Nicola.

I'm with Linda on the pain.
I haven't a tattoo mostly for that reason.

But, if I were to have one (in the 1800's) it would have to be something controversial... like the All-Seeing Eye with a double-bar cross in the pupil.

Nina, back to the ms.

Jane O

I horrified my daughter recently by commenting that if I were young I might get a tattoo. Oak leaves, perhaps, since I've been a Jacobite ever since I fell in love with Allan Breck Stewart at the age of 11. However, I would probably go for a spot generally hidden, the lower back, perhaps. I can't help thinking a tattoo looks pretty silly when you are pushing 70.

Nicola Cornick

I'm loving this discussion and the different ideas everyone has for that hypothetical tattoo! Jane, I'm a great fan of Allan Breck Stewart too so I like your Jacobite idea. Floral designs appeal to me too but I love some of the stronger images, the eye, the dragon. All this speculating when I know I'm not going to do it LOL!

Michelle Willingham

I'm much too leery of the permanence of tattoos. While I think they can be sexy on an alpha warrior, in real life, I'm not so fond of them.

I'm also too chicken to ever get one. Needles and I don't get along. :)

Sherrie Holmes

I'm ambivalent about tats. Would never get one myself, though I was tempted when a friend got a cosmetic tattoo--eyeliner. No more dealing with eyeliner pencils! It was very well done, and accented her eyes beautifully. If I could get the eyeliner tat without pain, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

But then this friend went and had her lips tattooed a dusky rose color, so that it looked like she was wearing lipstick with a subtle lip liner in a slightly darker shade. Nuh-uh! Not for me!

chey

I think I'd get a celtic knot. Although if I did get a tattoo, I'd have to be really really drunk, and I'd probably forget it had to be a historical tattoo.

Louis

Tattoos can be very useful. I have three dots used as radiation targets for cancer treatment nine years ago.

Andrea Pickens

Fascinating post, Nicola, I, too, am awfully squeamish when it comes to needles. I also don't like the idea of something permenent on my skin . . .just doesn't do it for my.

I have used tatoos in my Regency-set books. My female spies sported tiny tatoos as their badge of honor—it make them a little racy and naughty. As your blog says, it wasn't anything a peoper lady ought to have. Naturally, their love interests found it intriguing!

Anyway, thanks for the history. I love how I learn all sorts of interesting, arcane facts here.

Patricia Rice

Fascinating info, Nicola, thank you! That's an original area of conflict for your poor heroine.

Linda B, I think we must have been separated at birth. Ear piercing and tattoos appear to be a form of self mutilation as far as I'm concerned, and pain really doesn't interest me. "G"

Piper

I always told my nieces that a piercing (anywhere) was better than a tattoo, because when you were tired of it, you merely had to remove the ring (what have you) and the hole would close up.

I've often wondered about people who get cartoon characters tattooed on their bodies. Um, what's so special about that caterpillar that you want it on your breast? And when you stretch/sag it won't look quite so nice...

Patricia Barraclough

If I had a tattoo, it would be celtic. I'd like a celtic madala in the center of my back. It would have the tree of life in the center and several bands of celtic knots around the border.

Donna Brown

Given the context and the fact that I live in Hawaii, I'd have to come down in favor of a Polynesian style, but not in the typical places - Polynesian women got facial tattoos - so, geometric, but someplace more subtle than is traditional in Polynesian culture for females.


Nicola Cornick

Interesting that so many of us are too squeamish to consider a tattoo but what a great variety of images we'd choose if we *did* go for it!

Andrea,the tattoo is the perfect badge of honour for your fabulous lady spies, isn't it - racy, unusual and very, very naughty!

Robyn L

I am not into tattoos myself. If I did do it I'd choose a simple cross with a wheat stem on one side and a red rose on the other; the cross represents my faith, the wheat my Dad(a farmer) and the rose my Mom(her name was Rose).
I believe crosses were choices in history.

Ingrid

I remember having this discussion here last year on the occasion of Loretta Chase's 2008 release. Her heroine had a tattoo as well. This present spate of tattooed heroines proves again - if any further proof were needed - that historical heroines are for a large part reflections of our modern selves.
Personally, I would never have a tattoo, but then I'm middle-aged. But having seen tattoos on my grandfather's and father's generation (I come from a sea-faring family on my father's side), even as a teenager I knew that tattoos on a wrinkled and sagging skin were not pretty. And we're just talking underarms here, so I shudder to think how tattoos on fleshier body parts will look after the passage of time.
So I fervently agree with Piper on that point. As to piercings disappearing when you remove the stud/ring: have you seen those people who wear little circles inside their ear piercings, presumably enlarging them gradually? There's no changing your mind about those. After a while you will have a permanent hole in your earlobe.
A few months ago I saw a TV programme where a dentist examined several people with studs and rings in their tongues and lips. Apparently all of these people in their twenties had already done some damage to their teeth. All of them said, oh well, what's done is done. None of them were going to remove their piercings and none of them seemed to realise that the damage would go on. That must be something they will regret in twenty years time.
In addition to all the objections to tattoos I mentioned, I cannot think of an image I would like to carry around with me permanently on my skin. I would of course like Louis bear radiation marks gladly, but in my country I think they just use indelible marker (big crosses) and tell you to wash round that bit. At least, that's what they did when my mother had radiation therapy twenty years ago.

Nicola Cornick

I didn't realise this topic had been discussed on the Wenches before - being new I have read through with interest a large number of previous posts but hadn't picked that one up. That's a very interesting observation about heroines reflecting our modern selves, Ingrid. Firstly it's interesting that several authors should choose to put certain elements in their books without knowing that other people have done the same. How many times have I heard an author outlining some aspect of their book and thought: "But I'm writing about that!" Are we picking up on the same cultural vibes or is there something in the ether? As a writer I'm always looking for a historical take on a contemporary theme so, for example, I wrote about nineteenth century celebrity in Lord of Scandal. Tattoos really aren't my thing, but maybe I subconsciously thought it was a significant feature of modern culture and so decided to use it in a book.

Linda Banche

Nina, Pat, great minds think alike! **grins**

Mari

I would get a tiger, which is my chinese astrology symbol.

MJ

Thanks for the interesting post, Nicola! I’ve noticed in the past two or three years an absolute glut of tattooed women in urban fantasy novels. Richelle Mead’s _Dark Swan_ series, Michelle Sagara’s _Cast_ series are two that pop into my head, but the list goes on. Every time I browse the sci-fi/fantasy isle, I’m amazed at how many covers include heavily tattooed women. Often the authors creatively weave the tattoo images into the storyline—the tattoos serve as signs of invocation or have some other mystical significance to the plot. As there is certainly some overlap between romance and fantasy genres, I wonder if images of tattooed women are seeping into romance partially because of their heavy representation in urban fantasy.

I agree that tattoos have become a strong part of our modern cultural consciousness. It’s stood out to me how, even just in the past ten years, they have become increasingly acceptable and accepted in most environments. For example, walking around the city where I live, at least 3/4 of the under-forty crowd I encounter on any given day has a visible tattoo – from the bike-riding punks, the businessmen who are dressed down to go to a sports bar, to their dates wearing halter-tops and heels. Cher even had all her tattoos removed about ten years back because she claimed they had become too popular, and she felt that having a tattoo doesn’t make anyone unique anymore. In my opinion, it’s another way we’ve found to express our (American/Western) ideal of rugged individualism which we perceive as increasingly threatened by anonymity resulting from globalization, mass-production, and overpopulation. In other words: the usual post-modern experience.

And yes, I’m a fan of tattoos. I have many ;)

anne gracie

Fabulous post, Nicola. I don't have any tattoos (color me cowardly) but I do have a star-shaped birthmark, which is sort of like a natural tattoo. ;)

I love the look of some tattoos, particularly Celtic and Maori designs. But some tattoos are badly done and ugly. In my early years of teaching I helped a girl get her ugly home-made tatts removed by a doctor, and after that a number of kids came to me for help with the same problem. For a short time I became known as the tattoo teacher -- me, the cleanskin! LOL

I also remember doing a home visit where the father of the student opened the door, and I stared him straight in the throat... where he had a prison tattoo which was a dotted line and the words "cut here." Kind of distracting as we discussed his sons' behavior...

Nicola Cornick

Almost choked on my cup of tea when I read about your meeting with your student's father, Anne!

I've really enjoyed all the comments about tattoos and cultural identity, and the choices people would make for a tattoo of their own. There seem to be an awful lot of us who wouldn't go for it because of the pain or the thought of what it might look like in later years!

Eva S

Great post! I don't have any tattoos, perhaps because of the pain but I could think of a small dragon....I love fairy tales!

Jo Beverley

Jo here, chiming in late.

It is interesting how tattoos are not just popular but have significance. Mostly I think they're seen as daring, literally marking people out as different, though as they become more common I'm not sure if it still works.

Nicola, I love the idea of your heroine being indelibly marked as unsuitable.

I've only given heroes tattoos. The first was in my first historical, Lord of My Heart, because tattoos were part of the Anglo Saxon culture and I wanted him to have a mark he couldn't avoid, given as he ends up as a Norman knight during the Conquest.

My three Georges each had tattoos -- a dragon, a hawk, and a demon, from their nick names. They got them when going off to war at 16, so their bodies would be indentified. A typical teenage boy thing! And yes, they went down to Dover, because they were readily available in ports.

Good point about saggy skin, but then our heroes and heroines will never sag, will they?

Oh, I've just remembered. My MIP hero, the Duke of Ithorne has a tattoo. Part of playing at sea captain some of the time.

Yup, tattoos are in.

Jo :)

Nicola Cornick

I do love the idea of the dragon, the hawk and the demon tattoos!

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